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Futurologist
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Who Owns The Moon? Lunar Loophole Raises Legal Questions



Will someone own the moon one day? It may seem like a pretty important question, but no one seems to have the answer.

For now, no one has legal ownership over the moon. According to the United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs, the moon is not the property of any state, national or international government or organization, or any one entity.

“The legal status of the moon is currently defined by the 1967 Outer Space Treaty of the United Nations," Dr. Ian Crawford, a professor of planetary science at the Birkbeck University of London, told BBC Radio. But that may soon change.

“There is a strong case for developing international law in this area because in 1967 it was not envisaged that anyone other than nation states would be able to explore the moon," Crawford added. "So clearly that is changing now and there is a case for developing the outer space treaty to include private organizations that may wish to exploit the moon or possibly space tourism is likely to happen.”

This is a hot topic since our moon contains many resources, such as rare minerals and the helium-3 isotope, which is an important gas that allows for the production of energy. Whoever has rights to the moon will also have access to those resources.

How would you like to see this legal issue resolved?
Huffingtonpost​




I think the UN should call out a Lunar Republic. The Moon shouldn't be divided into small country's like our homeworld.
 

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The United Nations shouldn't have any jurisdiction over space. That would be like the English claiming the entire North America to the King and Britain. No one who lived in North America who wasn't British agreed to that. A lunar republic would be the same evil thing that Britain did, except this time it would be set up by the UN with the interests of only space agencies and military.

Space should be free for all people and owned by who ever can maintain that object's in space facilities. If a space company sets up an underground base in an asteroid then that asteroid should be fully owned by that company with no taxes. Any nation's space agency has the right to claim the land around any space colonies on other planets and moons that it has set up. Also space companies that have their HQs in space should pay no taxes to no one. Therefore space will be free, not owned by any tyrant UN dictators on Earth.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The concept is actually other than you imagine it.

It would be the same way like Belgium has been founded: We send some Colonists over there, with the knowledge of legal rights and law, with different nationalities and the countries of earth sign the approval of founding a Lunar Democratic Republic. Then we donate the moon to these first colonists who will design it's further constitution and welcome it's first immigrants.

I don't think the moon should be split up into small countries like it is here on earth. That is bad news for the economy and will cause war about the rights of pieces of land. we see that today in the Middle East, eastern Europe and it also happened during the founding of the USA.
 

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Сталин;115221930 said:
The United Nations shouldn't have any jurisdiction over space. That would be like the English claiming the entire North America to the King and Britain. No one who lived in North America who wasn't British agreed to that. A lunar republic would be the same evil thing that Britain did, except this time it would be set up by the UN with the interests of only space agencies and military.

Space should be free for all people and owned by who ever can maintain that object's in space facilities. If a space company sets up an underground base in an asteroid then that asteroid should be fully owned by that company with no taxes. Any nation's space agency has the right to claim the land around any space colonies on other planets and moons that it has set up. Also space companies that have their HQs in space should pay no taxes to no one. Therefore space will be free, not owned by any tyrant UN dictators on Earth.
errr... the United Nations isn´t a country. It´s exactly a collective of nations. Therefore, the United Nations can set rules for Lunar colonization, and future moon colonists may one day split from their EARTH nations and join the United Nations as their own sovereign nations.
 

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If it comes down to a specific nation gaining "ownership" of the moon it has to be between Russia and the United States, with the US having more chances as the first who landed on the moon.

I am not sure if a Lunar Republic would work; Who would govern it ? Where is the representation for future colonist if they are being governed by Earth-based humans representing many countries within the UN ? I say it has to be under sole ownership of a specific country.
 

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If it comes down to a specific nation gaining "ownership" of the moon it has to be between Russia and the United States, with the US having more chances as the first who landed on the moon.

I am not sure if a Lunar Republic would work; Who would govern it ? Where is the representation for future colonist if they are being governed by Earth-based humans representing many countries within the UN ? I say it has to be under sole ownership of a specific country.
lol, what a nonsense. Why would the US have a right to the WHOLE moon because of ONE base there? Possession of the moon will be imposed by bases and cities appearing in it. It will be a natural process. Just like the colonization of the Americas.

as for the moon becoming it´s own nation, it would obviously become so ONLY when it´s colonized and the people there, many BORN in the moon, decide to secede from Earth or from individual Earth nations. Maybe some parts of the moon will secede first, others later. Just like the Americas... several european nations established colonies in the Americas, and centuries later, they started getting independent, not always on the same time, from the european countries.
 

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errr... the United Nations isn´t a country. It´s exactly a collective of nations. Therefore, the United Nations can set rules for Lunar colonization, and future moon colonists may one day split from their EARTH nations and join the United Nations as their own sovereign nations.
The UN should not be required to create new countries on the moon and other planets. If there is a colony on another planet, then it should exist without UN membership. And the UN is a collective of many nations, but the UN is centered around the Earth and not space.

The UN is a tool for globalism, the whole point of it is to help unite the world and keep nations from going to war with each other. That is not necessary in space as the distances between planets and moons are very far. The UN as an Earth based organization and it will seem like Earthlings want to control other countries that are in space that have nothing to do with the Earth.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Сталин;115229151 said:
The UN should not be required to create new countries on the moon and other planets. If there is a colony on another planet, then it should exist without UN membership. And the UN is a collective of many nations, but the UN is centered around the Earth and not space.

The UN is a tool for globalism, the whole point of it is to help unite the world and keep nations from going to war with each other. That is not necessary in space as the distances between planets and moons are very far. The UN as an Earth based organization and it will seem like Earthlings want to control other countries that are in space that have nothing to do with the Earth.
Well since there is not yet a population on the moon, it actually belongs to the human race as far as we know, and thus to the jurisdiction of the united nations.
 

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Сталин;115229151 said:
And the UN is a collective of many nations, but the UN is centered around the Earth and not space.
United Nations mean United Nations, not United EARTH Nations.


The UN is a tool for globalism, the whole point of it is to help unite the world and keep nations from going to war with each other. That is not necessary in space as the distances between planets and moons are very far.
and? Actually, it´s not difficult to bomb the moon or use the moon to bomb the Earth.


The UN as an Earth based organization and it will seem like Earthlings want to control other countries that are in space that have nothing to do with the Earth.
"control other countries". There is the problem. The United Nations doesn´t control anything. You talk of the UN as if it was a country itself!
 

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lol, what a nonsense. Why would the US have a right to the WHOLE moon because of ONE base there? Possession of the moon will be imposed by bases and cities appearing in it. It will be a natural process. Just like the colonization of the Americas.

as for the moon becoming it´s own nation, it would obviously become so ONLY when it´s colonized and the people there, many BORN in the moon, decide to secede from Earth or from individual Earth nations. Maybe some parts of the moon will secede first, others later. Just like the Americas... several european nations established colonies in the Americas, and centuries later, they started getting independent, not always on the same time, from the european countries.
We can not think of the moon in terms of colonization as we can the continents of Earth, for example the Americas as you mentioned. There are no boundaries to define a specific area on the moon precisely as continents do . Think of it in terms of annexation.

I did not say the US absolutely should gain ownership over the moon, but I did say they have an edge over Russia. Obviously it needs ownership from a country or countries that can actually get there. When it comes down to it , I just do not see the moon being divided up as Antarctica is.

Mars colonization is what we should really be conversing about . :cheers:
 

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United Nations mean United Nations, not United EARTH Nations.
The UN is for Earth. With more globalism and integration projects like the African Union and European Union and Eurasian Union, the countries of Earth become very similar with similar interests. The UN is a global organization that represents all the countries of Earth.

and? Actually, it´s not difficult to bomb the moon or use the moon to bomb the Earth.
War will always happen either way. The UN is not a galactic police force to prevent wars. If it was, then that would be oppressive and tyrannical which proves my point that the UN wants control. Those nations will have to create alliances and solve problems on their own. Also those nations will be capable of space flight and developing AI that can help dialogue, they wont be your typical third world nations that needs international first world help from tribes hitting sticks and rocks against each other.

"control other countries". There is the problem. The United Nations doesn´t control anything. You talk of the UN as if it was a country itself!
So you are telling me that the UN has absolutely no control over anything? Then there's no point of having a UN if it has no control. The only reason it exists is to control. Look at Agenda 21 by the UN for example.
 

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We can not think of the moon in terms of colonization as we can the continents of Earth, for example the Americas as you mentioned. There are no boundaries to define a specific area on the moon precisely as continents do.

:|

continents are not countries. Countries have other divisions, usually around mountains, following rivers, canyons, etc. Some national borders do not even follow rivers, they are totally artificial, created by looking at maps. Yes, you CAN define "national borders" on the moon, following natural characteristics of the terrain (like craters, gullies, etc)



I did not say the US absolutely should gain ownership over the moon, but I did say they have an edge over Russia. Obviously it needs ownership from a country or countries that can actually get there. When it comes down to it , I just do not see the moon being divided up as Antarctica is.
in this case China is probably ahead, since they are planning to establish moon bases before the US.
 

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:|

continents are not countries. Countries have other divisions, usually around mountains, following rivers, canyons, etc. Some national borders do not even follow rivers, they are totally artificial, created by looking at maps. Yes, you CAN define "national borders" on the moon, following natural characteristics of the terrain (like craters, gullies, etc)
In terms of how we define borders on Earth are greatly decided by bodies of water. The moon obviously has no water to speak of and open land , thus defining border by craters and gullies between nation may cause problems.

I can just imagine wars over land deposits of rare minerals and such.
 

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In terms of how we define borders on Earth are greatly decided by bodies of water. The moon obviously has no water to speak of and open land , thus defining border by craters and gullies between nation may cause problems.
Look, it´s not up to us living on Earth or the UN to define lunar borders just out of nothing. Defining borders by craters and gullies will be done by geographers and diplomats, as have been defined the borders of Earth nations.

And when people LIVE on the moon, and they want to have different types of government than the other colony 3000km away, they WILL define borders, no matter how hard it is to define borders by craters and gullies.

I can just imagine wars over land deposits of rare minerals and such.
war... war never changes
 

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The UN, Earthly as it may be, is not only a ruling organization (and it's hardly even that), it's also a place where diplomats from all countries meet, and can take up issues with the rest of the world, vote on subjects that may affect all (or at least a good portion) of humanity, and establish relations. In its current form, the UN is not something an independent lunar colony would be likely to abstain from.

I guess colonies on other planets would be ruled akin to countries on Earth. Why bother to split it into national entities, when there is no national culture, history or for that matter demographics to speak of?

Only when several other colonies are firmly established (as in, people are born, live and die there, and have done for at least a generation), planets will begin to organize on a level higher than countries do on Earth. Until then, they will likely be considered regular countries, just on a different celestial object.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Well we could say the same about the founding of my home, Belgium. It was founded by the Dutch, French, German and Brits to prevent war in that region. On the throne: A german count, later to be called out as King Leopold I of Belgium. You could have said that these countries had nothing to do in this "free" region of Europe, but it all turned out to be a good idea. The same good idea will probably also work on the moon, but in a more modern way. It's better this way instead of some crazy dictator heading over there setting up weaponry and screaming he's the emperor of the moon. Which scenario does everyone like most?

Anyway, the current legal status of the moon, defined by the 1979 moon treaty is good, but it needs an update and it needs to be signed by more nations. At this moment it's unsigned by the U.S, China and Russia.
 

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Well we could say the same about the founding of my home, Belgium. It was founded by the Dutch, French, German and Brits to prevent war in that region. On the throne: A german count, later to be called out as King Leopold I of Belgium. You could have said that these countries had nothing to do in this "free" region of Europe, but it all turned out to be a good idea. The same good idea will probably also work on the moon, but in a more modern way. It's better this way instead of some crazy dictator heading over there setting up weaponry and screaming he's the emperor of the moon. Which scenario does everyone like most?

Anyway, the current legal status of the moon, defined by the 1979 moon treaty is good, but it needs an update and it needs to be signed by more nations. At this moment it's unsigned by the U.S, China and Russia.
^^
Before I didn't know that belgium founded by duthch french brits. very surprising history about belgium.
My country too(korea) we always invaded by sourround strong country empire such like a china, japan etc.
now korea in the very center of SUPER POWER's conflicted(USA/CHINA/JAPAN) so belgium and korea have share same geographical&historical background.

Bytheway this thread dealing a very futuristic issue about MOON's territory problem. very interesting..

I hope inequality problem no more repeated on the MOON. Let's make moon as equality region for the whole human mankind!:)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
That is Exactly what I mean, Inno! It would be a shame for mankind if we would go out and claim the Moon, only to divide it in multiple countries. This only awakens inequality and a political unstable system. I hope that the great leaders of Earth agree in the foundation of a lunar republic to forecome a lot of political issues.
 
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