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Another advantage from the government perspective is they can reduce the cost of HS2, politically positive for them, and invest even more in the north, politically positive for them, if they move the cost of Piccadilly and beyond from HS2 into NPR budget.

Essentially you've just reduced the amount for HS2 to do after Crewe to taking the tracks into Piccadilly whilst NPR builds that station and onwards, presumably a LOT sooner than the HS2 plans.

Who knows.....
 

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In fact this has a little of the Cummings about it.

He opposes HS2for cost reasons.

BoZo has repeated that costs are now under control, looking at reducing costs.

There is not huge enthusiasm about HS2 in the blue wall seats, more so in the larger northern cities.

This would take away the complaints from places like Doncaster and other places on the route that 'get nothing' *.

I do not think for one second that this will happen as per this report.

I do think that someone in on a game and we could very much see more along these lines in weeks ahead, preparing for quite material changes to the scheme.

* they will benefit just not as obviously as other places.
I wouldn't have thought this was Cummings himself, but I could see it being the work of those in sympathy with him.

Be aware that what follows is just my speculation on what some within government seem to want based on leaks and publically stated policy. There's a high probability I'm wrong, or that I'm missing a vital piece of information.

The basic problem with HS2, particularly its eastern branch is that it doesn't meet the politico-economic needs of the government, which is to spread high productivity high growth activity more widely around the country. HS2 is a project for the London centred service based economy we have; it frees up commuter seats on the 3 mainlines, it speeds journeys from regional service centres to the capital and its regeneration potential is primarily tied to 'back-office' development in provincial locations. But this is not the economy the Cummings tendency appear to want. Instead they desire a technology centred industrial exporting model that builds high value growth all across the country. If you want a spatial concept for that it's a few 'hub' agglomerations connected to one another quickly for services/R&D, but manufacturing products in their outlying regions (the red/blue wall seats). Setting aside the many other barriers to the UK transitioning to that kind of economy from where we are now, HS2 as currently envisaged serves this model poorly. Instead it will concentrate advanced services, corporate management and R&D in the greater south east, while not allowing the provincial cities to acquire the degree of specialisation needed to lift their surrounding regions out of poverty. The eastern leg makes good business sense under the 'old' economic model because there are lots of potential customers who'll see the benefit of faster journeys, but if we want to build an economy based around regional innovation hubs then it doesn't deliver that; the cities/economies it serves are too small. From this point of view Sheffield, York, Nottingham and Derby are an irrelevance. The places that matter are London, the West Midlands, Manchester/Cheshire, West Yorkshire and eventually Edinburgh/Glasgow, and they all must be connected to one another, not just to London.

Personally I see lots of problems with this, but this or something like it seems to underpin a thread of thinking that no matter how many times it's dismissed still won't die.
 

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The government has released a document called 'Project Speed; which details where the £5bn is being spent in 2020.

I cannot find it yet....
 

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£10m will be the consultancy to get the scheme developed and towards being built I would imagine.

Drawing up the plans for platform 15&16 hopefully along with a business case for all that needs to happen to fix that bottleneck.
 

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How bare bones was the P15-16 plan? Was there much in the way of station space (retail, alt ticketing or exits towards Mayfield) - or will it literally be an extension of the footbridge (+ lifts) to 13-14 and another island?

Will it share that circulation area (pen) above?

Will 13-14 be widened/straightened in turn? Or may it not need it, if trains are same direction and alternating.

Curious as to the access and the details. Maybe it could be bare bones, but certainly not for $10m!

And of course, there is Oxford Road to consider too.
 

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But the plans have already been developed in detail, and were ready to go before Grayling ditched them. Why do we need another arduous consultation process which realistically will put back the completion date by 5 years at the least
Presumably because it requires a TWAO - and statutory processes in this county take a very long time! On the bright side- this project will not come under the Planning Act 2008, so it could be worse!
 

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I presume the Picc HS2 station needs to be aligned as is planned due to the need to build it either on the surface, or at worst, as a cut & cover box, and that necessitates pointing the wrong way for Leeds. Is there scope, if built SW-NE aligned cut & cover, to build the station box under the Piccadilly throat to reduce the demolition required?

...or is Manchester Picc ordinary enough you could demolish the front of the station and build a helpfully-aligned station box there?
 

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£10m will be the consultancy to get the scheme developed and towards being built I would imagine.

Drawing up the plans for platform 15&16 hopefully along with a business case for all that needs to happen to fix that bottleneck.
Network Rail have already applied for the TWAO and then completed a review that recommended the original scheme. Yes there will be additional design work to do, but I don't believe for a second that they don't have enough information to greenlight the project if they want to. Why do they need to do it all again?
 

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Why does Sheffield lose out whatever plans are suggested?? Very frustrating. It’s a ‘massive’ city and bang in the middle of everything but not on the radar. Very frustrating.
Manchester is like a mythical impossible place to get to from this side of the Pennines, but hopefully the Mancs get their underground station!!
In this situation I would say that Sheffield made their bed and are now laying in it. The city's leaders campaigned effectively for the city to be taken off the route by wanting trains to serve the existing station, despite the fact that would clearly be effectively impossible. The only way to satisfy the persistent demand was the currently proposed scheme, which has been at the detriment of the entire Eastern leg which now misses out its second largest city and misses the opportunity to connect Yorkshire's two largest cities.

It was a stepping stone to effectively realising that if you're bypassing Sheffield anyway, you may as well extend the western leg to Leeds instead of building a parallel leg pretty much just for Leeds (and East Midlands).
 

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In this situation I would say that Sheffield made their bed and are now laying in it. The city's leaders campaigned effectively for the city to be taken off the route by wanting trains to serve the existing station, despite the fact that would clearly be effectively impossible. The only way to satisfy the persistent demand was the currently proposed scheme, which has been at the detriment of the entire Eastern leg which now misses out its second largest city and misses the opportunity to connect Yorkshire's two largest cities.

It was a stepping stone to effectively realising that if you're bypassing Sheffield anyway, you may as well extend the western leg to Leeds instead of building a parallel leg pretty much just for Leeds (and East Midlands).
If the scenario came to pass Leeds will miss out on the fast service to Birmingham plus Manchester will be 30 minutes quicker to London than rail. Improvements to places like Nottingham would be off the cards aswell for Leeds.
If HS2 uses classic compatible services to Sheffield as suggested by the proposals diagrams put forward, it would I guess be another 10 minutes extra to present plans as the route through Derby is more direct and the hs2 line into Sheffield came of so far south of Sheffield to capture the Chesterfield trade, it didn’t benefit that much from the faster lines.
Tbf I wonder if the council leaders would have pushed for Victoria over Meadowhall knowing what they do now. Meadowhall is super plugged into midland and the whole of South Yorkshire tbf....
 
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