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Aerial Erector
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Just a quick note to tell all about a tv documentry on bbc1 tonight at 1035pm. The programme is about the 24 storey Aracon tower in Deptford and its change from council trash to private apartments. The programme is in eight parts or so and might be worth a look for the shots of the wharf alone :)
 

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Well, i watched it. Shows a differant outlook on redevelopment aspects. How the river is becomeing 'closed' to the less well off.
 

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Bada Bing!
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I enjoyed it, I think the guy who owned the flat in the tower should have held out for a better deal as it didn't seem that fair he had to put up with some much crap for a year before they agreed a price.
 

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The Tower

Think the tower looks truly awful, but that is purely a result of the value engineering Berkley have employed. The attempts at marketing Deptford were dreadful too, like something off the apprentice.

I love the idea of regenerating the area, but think the incoming residents will have a really tough time, both in their interactions with the existing populace and in having to forego the amenities to which (I assume) they are used.

It would certainly be enough to put me off moving there...

Anway, the whole episode got me thinking (and please feel free to try and answer some of these):

If this regeneration, and any others that might potentially follow result in an improvement in the wider area will the current residents have to leave?

Is that a good or bad thing?

Is there a 'poor mindset' that affects behaviour and 'runs areas down'?

Where will they go?

Why were they there in the first place?

You can apply this argument to any place which you think has a similar situation...

I found it captivating viewing as I live in Westcombe Park, not too far down the road. Television is so much more interesting when it's something local! Will have to try and catch the next one.
 

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Population movements inside cities due to 'regeneration' is nothing new. The poor are constantly shifted about whilst the rich move to more desirable areas. What's interesting is the reversal of this movement in the last ten years, where before the wealthy would move out of London to escape the dirtiness and shabby nature of the city centre for more attractive surburbia, it is now the regeneration of inner cities that is drawing the youthful wealthy professionals back.

I do think London will have a problem in the next few decades as the poorer get pushed further out of London as its inner areas are regenerated or 'gentrified'. Will this mean areas on the periphery of London become the rundown regions? Who knows.
 

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"I do think London will have a problem in the next few decades as the poorer get pushed further out of London as its inner areas are regenerated or 'gentrified'. Will this mean areas on the periphery of London become the rundown regions? Who knows."

Good point.

I think it could well do. Although, demand for housing in suburban areas (think Bromley & Croydon) is still very high - and unlikely to diminish even with the movement inwards (city dwellers having children and moving outwards, being replaced by newcomer professionals moving to these new developments).

I think the Thames Gateway area is definitely a candidate for the eventual destination of London's poorest, especially if the planned building of new homes goes ahead. I worry that this will further deprive those people of opportunity and suspect that moving east would be a bit of an 'out of sight, out of mind' solution.

Still, it could be argued (not sure if I agree) that if you rely on the state to provide shelter, you can't be overly fussy about where they put you.

Aside from that, I think that although the programme is trying to highlight these issues, but have a concern that it may portray the professionals who move into the tower as being either:

a) Naive
b) Stuck-up
c) Hostile to their neighbours
d) Sterile (as in not particularly diverse - e.g. the Nathan and Molly stereotype of Clapham)
e) All of the above

by choosing a specific cross-section of those new entrants to follow.

The thought appears in my mind after seeing the way they covered Berkley as marketing to the champagne-sipping, aspirational-consumerist stereotype. I personally find that very poor taste (on the part of the developers) and would never be tempted into buying a home as a 'lifestyle choice' (as opposed to some intrinsic merit such as location) and I suspect many of the new inhabitants of the tower think the same way as they are supposed to be intelligent professionals.
 

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Fanatstic programme..being from south east london myself one of my best friends used to live around the corner from Aragon tower..and ive met Les..he told us he got 250,000 to move out..so someones not telling the truth!I hope they have the mad black lady nutcase with bright orange ginger hair..anyone who knows Deptford will know who i am talking about!! One mline which made me laugh was the conversation from the 4 posh bits of totty who worked in Berkeleys Marketing Dept and who propably grew up in surrey...'Deptford certainly has a buzz about it':lol:
 

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I didnt see the programme but know the area and always thought it was a bit bizarre doing that to the aragorn in the middle of that slum. for those worried about regeneration leading to a lack of diversity in inner London , i dont think they need to worry ; there are still plenty of shiteholes to be cleared up, even if there is more regen and central london (zone 1) at least has become the playground of the wealthy - even it has Elephant and Castle.

I think the poor do have a different mind set there is poverty of ambition and spirit as well as no money, perhaps this is caused by no money, perhaps not. i cycle back home through parts of South London each night and even within the same borough, with the same roadsweepers and council services, there are obviously areas where people make their own area a mess, drop litter, pee in the street and allow their dogs to , graffiti, dump rubbish and cause vandalism. its this kind of poverty as well as plain old lack of cash that needs to be tackled.

will watch next mon sounds like a good show.

deptford - buzzy? i always thought of the fact that Henry 8th built his fleet at Deptford whn i passed through ; certainly most of the people walking around there look medieval. next time you visit - you'll see what i mean.

Mind you i even heard an agent describe Coldharbour Lane in Brixton as "trendy" recently which is a bit of a stretch.
 

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^ It's buzzin coz all da bluds hav buzz blades* dese days.


* Buzz blade: cross between switch blade and electric toothbrush.
 

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yeah, i think it was virtually sold out quite a while ago.

I guess the programme has started being shown now as they wanted to show the impact of people moving into the tower on the area?
 

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I do think London will have a problem in the next few decades as the poorer get pushed further out of London as its inner areas are regenerated or 'gentrified'. Will this mean areas on the periphery of London become the rundown regions? Who knows.
I think that this is already happening, look at places like Wembley, Hounslow, Romford and East Ham even just travel around the north circular!

All crumbling, tatty, the sort of incoherence you would expect from places neglected for decades. These are the places where we will (should) see major regeneration iniatives after the big central ones finish.
 

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The thought appears in my mind after seeing the way they covered Berkley as marketing to the champagne-sipping, aspirational-consumerist stereotype. I personally find that very poor taste (on the part of the developers) and would never be tempted into buying a home as a 'lifestyle choice' (as opposed to some intrinsic merit such as location) and I suspect many of the new inhabitants of the tower think the same way as they are supposed to be intelligent professionals.
I suppose they have to go OTT on the marketing because they are selling re-hashed council housing: an isolated tower block on the edge of a windswept post-industrial riverside. It makes me angry because we should be extracting real quality out of this building boom and interest in urban living, not ending up with watery marketing spin, poor buildings and even worse urban design! These things will now linger on for another few generations!
 

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Izzle Bizzle
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Not seen the programme yet but I'm not surprised about some of the comments made about Berkely Homes. Hed them as a client recently and they've been unbelievably bad. Disorganised, constantly changing their minds, complete lack of understanding of their target market, in fact just generally completely and utterly out of their depth.

I would say they should stick to what they know, but I'd really rather they didn't Identikit housing estates piss me off no end too.
 

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Population movements inside cities due to 'regeneration' is nothing new. The poor are constantly shifted about whilst the rich move to more desirable areas. What's interesting is the reversal of this movement in the last ten years, where before the wealthy would move out of London to escape the dirtiness and shabby nature of the city centre for more attractive surburbia, it is now the regeneration of inner cities that is drawing the youthful wealthy professionals back.

I do think London will have a problem in the next few decades as the poorer get pushed further out of London as its inner areas are regenerated or 'gentrified'. Will this mean areas on the periphery of London become the rundown regions? Who knows.
Non leafy suburbia is the next Heygate Estate (I pushing it a bit)...some researchers are starting to study these new tendencies at the moment.
But these new trends are not taken into account in the planning system yet.
 

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UK (Eng/Sco/Wal/N.I.) UK
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Manual - hasn't this been the case in Paris and other cities in mainland Europe for years? I thought the US and UK had been exceptions to this rule in the past.
 

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that big berkeley homes scheme in woolwich is a good example of dross housing . these new crammed in executive estates where you have to drive a mile for a pint of milk and all the houses face each other across paved front driveways are actually the slums of the future, i believe - i think the (currently deeply unfashionable) old 1930s- 1960's semis with their large rooms and generous gardens will make a big comeback in due course.
 
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