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Urge Desire Rest
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Hello,

unfortunately it has recently been brought to my attention that train services to my train station are being cut by 23 % between the hours of 8 and 9 am in the morning going from 13 to 10 in an hour (going to 3 different destinations).

The new southeastern train time table shows 4 trains are being permanently stopped from December (although a later train is bought forward slightly so it's only 3 less trains in that hour but if you went from a few minutes past the hour it's 4).

I'm absolutely gob smacked that these trains are being cut so drastically at such a busy time. I wouldn't mind if normally I got a seat - but mostly I don't. They consistently put the train prices up and now cut the train service.

The crazy thing is they are about to install a lift so wheel chair bound people can access the platform - but they aren't going to fit them on the train during normal working hours.

Has anyone else discovered train cuts looming on their line (I'm in Blackheath in London for those interested).

Anyone know of good ways to campaign against cuts in services?
 

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This is because of the Javelins though isn't it? Some Southeastern services from North Kent are being siphoned onto HS1 at Ebbsfleet, so some stations further along the old route are losing services?

From what I hear from colleagues (have quite a few of my drivers in towns like Sittingbourne), the Javelins are not being welcomed due to loss of some direct trains to the City and West End... They only seem to be beneficial if you live in Ashford or Ebbsfleet.
 

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Not cuts bas such, but in my neck of the woods they are on about massively hiking the prices of tickets on the Trans Pennine Express. This is because demand is rapidly outstripping capacity on these routes (especially the Manchester - Huddersfield - Leeds corridor) and because the government has been so woeful and slow in anticipating this (as usual), extra carriages have not been procured in time to increase the capacity. The solution? Hike up fares to discourage some commuters from using the train to turn to road based transport instead. Way to go...
 

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yup, much easier than just reopening the woodhead tunnel. estimated cost of reopening it - £139 million. cost benefits to the yorkshire region - £3.5 billion. only a 25 to 1 cost benefit in favour!
 

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Hello,

unfortunately it has recently been brought to my attention that train services to my train station are being cut by 23 % between the hours of 8 and 9 am in the morning going from 13 to 10 in an hour (going to 3 different destinations).

The new southeastern train time table shows 4 trains are being permanently stopped from December (although a later train is bought forward slightly so it's only 3 less trains in that hour but if you went from a few minutes past the hour it's 4).

I'm absolutely gob smacked that these trains are being cut so drastically at such a busy time. I wouldn't mind if normally I got a seat - but mostly I don't. They consistently put the train prices up and now cut the train service.

The crazy thing is they are about to install a lift so wheel chair bound people can access the platform - but they aren't going to fit them on the train during normal working hours.

Has anyone else discovered train cuts looming on their line (I'm in Blackheath in London for those interested).

Anyone know of good ways to campaign against cuts in services?
The Javelins will add a lot more capacity than is being taken away, so even though there are fewer trains they should be easier to get on.
 

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Sense Offender
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Looking at the new time table for the cross city line through brum, it appears they're cutting offpeak services from 6 trains per hour to 4 in the city area, and from 4 an hour to 2 as far as Lichfield City! This is increadibly frustrating considering it is currently a turn-up-and-go service!
 

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yup, much easier than just reopening the woodhead tunnel. estimated cost of reopening it - £139 million. cost benefits to the yorkshire region - £3.5 billion. only a 25 to 1 cost benefit in favour!
How is that going to help people travelling between Manchester, Huddersfield and Leeds. Most of the congestion is commuters travelling from Huddersfield to Leeds/Manchester and back.
 

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How is that going to help people travelling between Manchester, Huddersfield and Leeds. Most of the congestion is commuters travelling from Huddersfield to Leeds/Manchester and back.
We need a completely new rail line between the two cities. Leeds-Manchester via Calderdale is too slow and via Huddersfield very congested.

Longer trains would solve some capacity problems. Is there no regular coach service between Manchester and Leeds that perhaps could rival the train (probably not in time but certainly in fare)?
 

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We need a completely new rail line between the two cities. Leeds-Manchester via Calderdale is too slow and via Huddersfield very congested.
Seems a bit onerous. There’s plenty that could be done to upgrade the existing Huddersfield route such as quadruple tracking, easing current bottlenecks and perhaps reopening the 2 disused single bore tunnels at Standedge for rail use.

You would also need to increase capacity at Leeds station. It is nearly out of capacity. TransPennine has recently applied to run 5 trains per hour (tph) from here, one more than the 4tph it currently runs. The Huddersfield to Leeds section is also the busiest section on any TransPennine Express service.
 

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Hello,

unfortunately it has recently been brought to my attention that train services to my train station are being cut by 23 % between the hours of 8 and 9 am in the morning going from 13 to 10 in an hour (going to 3 different destinations).

The new southeastern train time table shows 4 trains are being permanently stopped from December (although a later train is bought forward slightly so it's only 3 less trains in that hour but if you went from a few minutes past the hour it's 4).

I'm absolutely gob smacked that these trains are being cut so drastically at such a busy time. I wouldn't mind if normally I got a seat - but mostly I don't. They consistently put the train prices up and now cut the train service.

The crazy thing is they are about to install a lift so wheel chair bound people can access the platform - but they aren't going to fit them on the train during normal working hours.

Has anyone else discovered train cuts looming on their line (I'm in Blackheath in London for those interested).

Anyone know of good ways to campaign against cuts in services?
Well I don't actually see anything wrong with prioritising services from further a field as this is where the money can be made and train operators are private companies trying to make a profit. If they can do this without coming to the gov't for a bailout its good news for all.

However if train operators are going to cut back services to Blackheath or anywhere else in London something else needs to top up the service shortfall. Ideally a tube line needs to be built or extended (most probably the Bakerloo or a new spur of the Jubilee in this case) underneath the current line to take over the metro service completely.

That way the Southeastern get to focus on making their profit because they have full use of the overland track and the people of Blackheath can rely on a decent transport connection to Zone 1. But with the current recession this isn't going to happen anytime soon.
 

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We need a completely new rail line between the two cities. Leeds-Manchester via Calderdale is too slow and via Huddersfield very congested.

Longer trains would solve some capacity problems. Is there no regular coach service between Manchester and Leeds that perhaps could rival the train (probably not in time but certainly in fare)?
No chance of such a route being built of course, but I don't see where one could actually go anyway. There is barely any distance between Huddersfield and Calderdale/Halifax, and if a potential alignment actually was identified then the land acquisition and engineering costs would be absolutely astronomical.

There is a frequent coach between Leeds and Manchester, and its journey time is eight minutes longer than that of the train outside the peaks (during which there are few journeys). During the peaks it is more like 20-25 minutes longer. Coaches seem to attract different passengers than trains, and the journey times surely are potentially much less reliable than those of a train. Some coach services build so much slack into the timetables it would allow for almost anything (used Nottingham-London a few times in May/June with £1 funfares and always arrived in London around 40 minutes early) though such wild potential variation in journey times allowed by the timetable would likely be just as off-putting as late running. The route would also be unable to relieve the Leeds-Huddersfield section anyway. It would be interesting to see National Express become a commuter route between Leeds and Manchester but I can't see it.
 

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I don't expect a new line at all, or not until high speed rail arrives. Some more capacity can be created at Leeds City but I think it's unrealistic to think we can just keep on expanding City's capacity. It's good to have all rail services at one station, but if rail usage is to grow more stations will be needed.

Not thinking of National Express but thinking of something based on the Oxford Tube model- express coach links in and out of Leeds to commuter towns/cities; major places in the City Region, Manchester, Hull, Sheffield and Scunthorpe/Grimsby (where there is no direct rail link to Leeds City).
 

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Urge Desire Rest
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The Javelins will add a lot more capacity than is being taken away, so even though there are fewer trains they should be easier to get on.
Unfortunately the Javelins are serving a completely different commuter group to us.

There is an article in the evening standard about this.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...elin+train+not+as+fast+as+it+seems/article.do

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...discover-140mph-Javelin-train-fast-seems.html

Apparently 81 stations served from London - almost half - will suffer some form of cut. 22 stations in south london and Kent will have services axed without any Javalin trains to compensate (including me :().

Seems chatham and gillingham will have peak services to cannon street slashed by 30% and off peak service to victoria cut by a quarter.

all trains between the Woolwich branch and Blackheath will be cancelled bewtween 8 and 9 which will increase reliance on busses and road use in the local area.
 

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How is that going to help people travelling between Manchester, Huddersfield and Leeds. Most of the congestion is commuters travelling from Huddersfield to Leeds/Manchester and back.
because you're able to shift some of the capacity on to the reopened tunnel... although not all those services.
 

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Transpennine, when it was split as a separate franchise, by the SRA, had long-term objectives to become a 'intercity-style' franchise, with the Arriva bid suggesting a reopened Woodhead, using Voyager/Meridian style units.

This would have freed up capacity on the Diggle route, to allow a more intensive, local stopping service, reducing the load off TPE and the local road network/M62.

Unfortunately DfT meddling caused the franchise to get down-specced, shortened, and uknown surprise, massive untapped demand came when the timetable was recast, new trains introduced.

TPE claims to be a long distance, high-quality, 'intercity' operator, yet its main market is short distance urban commuter trips.

Woodhead was sacrificed by BR because it always wanted to electrify Diggle, widen it up for containers. Despite decades of different people talking up different plans, it never has and probably never will be done. Can you imagine the disruption/cost, look at WCRM experience?

Cheapest, easiest quickest solution, to anyone with an ounce of common sense is to get the Woodhead reopened. Unfortunately, politicians and professionals seem too wrapped up/blinkered ever to see it.

Stagecoach Express was seeing its 'turn up and go' coach network blossom in the 1990s, the North West and East Midlands areas had quite a few routes, but these dwindled with competition from the railway.

What is needed is a co-ordinated network where rail and coach work together, but with daft UK 'competition' laws, this won't happen.

Interesingly, going back on-topic, it appears even Chiltern Railways, with its long 20-year franchise, appears to be looking to CUT services, although perhaps this is because they reckon they could need the units elsewhere, like Oxford - Bicester - Marylebone or East-West Rail (to Milton Keynes)?

Details for the December 2009 timetable here.
 

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Unfortunately the Javelins are serving a completely different commuter group to us.

There is an article in the evening standard about this.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...elin+train+not+as+fast+as+it+seems/article.do

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...discover-140mph-Javelin-train-fast-seems.html

Apparently 81 stations served from London - almost half - will suffer some form of cut. 22 stations in south london and Kent will have services axed without any Javalin trains to compensate (including me :().

Seems chatham and gillingham will have peak services to cannon street slashed by 30% and off peak service to victoria cut by a quarter.

all trains between the Woolwich branch and Blackheath will be cancelled bewtween 8 and 9 which will increase reliance on busses and road use in the local area.
My point was that your train will be less busy because the people who are on it at the moment will switch to the Javelin services. Even though you don't benefit from it directly, you shouldn't lose out in terms of capacity.
 

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Unfortunately the Javelins are serving a completely different commuter group to us.

There is an article in the evening standard about this.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...elin+train+not+as+fast+as+it+seems/article.do

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...discover-140mph-Javelin-train-fast-seems.html

Apparently 81 stations served from London - almost half - will suffer some form of cut. 22 stations in south london and Kent will have services axed without any Javalin trains to compensate (including me :().

Seems chatham and gillingham will have peak services to cannon street slashed by 30% and off peak service to victoria cut by a quarter.

all trains between the Woolwich branch and Blackheath will be cancelled bewtween 8 and 9 which will increase reliance on busses and road use in the local area.
Although at peak times you may have to wait a couple more minutes you may now be able to get a seat, which is near impossible at Blackheath at present.
 

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In the aeroplane over B1
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Looking at the new time table for the cross city line through brum, it appears they're cutting offpeak services from 6 trains per hour to 4 in the city area, and from 4 an hour to 2 as far as Lichfield City! This is increadibly frustrating considering it is currently a turn-up-and-go service!
Where can I view the new (Dec 09?) timetable? I'm interested in the changes.
 
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