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Highrise Resident
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
پیشنهاد احداث تراموا در خيابان ولي*عصر

تاريخ انتشار: ۰۱ شهريور ۱۳۸۸ - ۲۰

شهردار منطقه يك تهران گفت: پيشنهاد استفاده از تراموا به جاي BRT را به معاونت حمل و نقل و ترافيك تهران داده*ايم و در اين زمينه مذاكراتي با سرمايه*گذاران و شركت*هاي خارجي انجام شده است.

محمد احمدي بافنده در گفت*وگو با فارس افزود: مطابق برنامه خطوط اتوبوس تندرو **بايد تا ميدان تجريش ادامه پيدا كند اما از آنجا كه چهار راه پارك*وي نقش اساسي در ترافيك منطقه دارد، كار با برنامه*ريزي و زمانبندي معاونت حمل و نقل و ترافيك شهرداري تهران اجرايي مي*شود.


وي با اشاره به اينكه خيابان ولي*عصر(عج) حدفاصل چهار راه پارك وي تا ميدان تجريش مشخصات متفاوتي با ساير قسمت*هاي اين خيابان دارد، افزود: به دنبال اين هستيم كه به جاي BRT از ترامواي روي سطح (LRT) در اين محور استفاده كنيم. چراكه تراموا علاوه بر اينكه از لحاظ زيبايي با وضعيت منطقه متجانس*تر است، نسبت به اتوبوس داراي عرض كمتري است و در شيب* زياد اين خيابان استهلاك كمتري دارد.


شهردار منطقه يك تهران اظهار كرد: پيشنهاد استفاده از LRT را به معاونت حمل و نقل و ترافيك تهران داده*ايم و در اين زمينه مذاكراتي با سرمايه*گذاران و شركت*هاي خارجي انجام شده است.


وي با تأكيد بر اينكه اجراي طرح LRT مغايرتي با BRT ندارد، گفت: فضايي كه مورد استفاده اتوبوس*هاي تندرو قرار مي*گيرد مي*تواند در آينده به LRT
اختصاص يابد.
http://www.tabnak.ir/fa/pages/?cid=60854

Brief:

Tehran's district 1 municipality has proposed an LRT system for Valiasr St. instead of a BRT line.

So far they have negotiated with some investors and foreign companies .
 

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^ Agreed that a tramline would be better than BRT simply down to their size. I think for Valiasr both subway and over ground light rail will aid in reducing congestion but I doubt the traffic jams will be much better really.
 

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Golfo_Persico
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IT WILL BE HORRIBLE!!!!

Valiasr str. is already to small! so are 70% of all Tehran streets......

valiasr has a huge car traffic and it's to small for all those cars and busses let alone that the will build a tramway in it! just sad!

I hope it will not go on....you see this is what we get if IRI plans projects---->ASHGAL, TRASH! tssss

we don't need trams we need a whole new road overhaul and they must make the streets, highways,....wider.
 

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Golfo_Persico
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^^what for choice do we have than....it's not only valiasr and stuff...

but look at the lower areas of tehran, parts like Sarsabil, Shohada, Eslamshahr,.....

this parts are more populated than the northern area.

their roads are soo small that even a paykan can't pass easely....

we must do something cause the traffic is getting worse and for sure not better.

but trams are not the sollution they will make the roads even smaller.

Tehran has huge infrastructure problems they must first think about that instead of saying tram? that sounds cool let's build it! haha it's not that cool at all...-.-
 

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Highrise Resident
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Tehr_IR, a tramway line is the cheapest and most efficient solution for Valiasr Ave.

Building tunnels is expensive and takes a lot of time, BRT lines take too much space and the buses use petrol, and expanding the street width will destroy the old and large trees next to the side walks, besides the aim is to make people drive less and use public transport.
 

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Golfo_Persico
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^^haha and you think people will do that. many people love their cars here, you should know that....if you don't have a car in Tehran it's like you have nothing......

and besides they must to something about it soon or later even if it will destroy some trees.

and you think a tram line will not take much space???.....

Cheap or expensive, Iran has a lot of money more than you think...the problem is that the ayathollahs fill their own pockets whit it!..

Tehran's infrastructure is just sad....

and it's not only valiasr that has such a problem but also many southern areas that are even worse.

Tehran's population is over 14 million (metro) and the streets are so small as sidewalks...

if they really want do something about the traffic they can put pressure on IranKhodro and Saipa and stuff to not produce thousands of cars everyday and sell it....

this is just a fact: they must remove some trees to get better comfort and less traffic or they can keep the trees and build trams and stuck for hours in traffic....it's their choice.
 

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a tangy drink!
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^^haha and you think people will do that. many people love their cars here, you should know that....if you don't have a car in Tehran it's like you have nothing......

and besides they must to something about it soon or later even if it will destroy some trees.

and you think a tram line will not take much space???.....

Cheap or expensive, Iran has a lot of money more than you think...the problem is that the ayathollahs fill their own pockets whit it!..

Tehran's infrastructure is just sad....

and it's not only valiasr that has such a problem but also many southern areas that are even worse.

Tehran's population is over 14 million (metro) and the streets are so small as sidewalks...

if they really want do something about the traffic they can put pressure on IranKhodro and Saipa and stuff to not produce thousands of cars everyday and sell it....

this is just a fact: they must remove some trees to get better comfort and less traffic or they can keep the trees and build trams and stuck for hours in traffic....it's their choice.
Wider and roads is not a practical answer for an established city. I studied this at university. Widening streets in cities has been shown time and again to make almost no relief to congestion at all where cars are the primary mode of transport. The reasons are too complex to go into here. Tokyo is a good example of a city that has outgrown the car and people are naturally forced onto public transport. The streets there are very narrow and there is absolutely no possibilty of widening all the streets. They would have to knock it down completely and rebuild it low density, like Riyadh or LA and then it would take up almost half the island of Honshu, not to mention the horrific enviromental consequences. What Tehran needs to do is develop public transport infrastructure and force people to leave their cars at home. Yes people may be used to driving, but they have to change their habits. For a city like Tehran there is no alternative to increased use of public transport other than gridlock and misery.
 

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^^haha and you think people will do that. many people love their cars here, you should know that....if you don't have a car in Tehran it's like you have nothing......
But most people in their right mind avoid using their car and use taxis/motorbikes or public transport (where available) to get around the city, particularly during business hours. It is the evening when absolutely everyone hops into their cars. The reason behind the traffic is simple, Tehran has a gargantuan population and the best thing to do is discourage on going rural-urban migration and to promote the opposite.

Tehran's infrastructure is just sad....
Actually Tehran has pretty good infrastructure for a developing country. It is completely hampered by Iranian attitudes to driving and chaotic overground public transport.

if they really want do something about the traffic they can put pressure on IranKhodro and Saipa and stuff to not produce thousands of cars everyday and sell it....
This is probably the most naive part of your post, I have heard quite a few Iranians make this ridiculous comment also, so they should tell an economic power house to stop trading to achieve exactly what? Nothing apart from damaging the economy. If the people want to buy cars they will do so regardless to IKCO. The automotive boom was not purely because IKCO upped its production with new models but more to do with the global economic boom putting more money into people's pockets to be able to buy their primary and then later secondary cars.
 

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Golfo_Persico
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^^IranKhodro was bankrupt in may, the IRI gave them like milliards of tomans to save them...
sure the IRI can put pressure...
also my dad has an IranKhodro company here and he says that IranKhodro just sell cars to everyone if you know what I mean...

maybe Tehran has good infrastructure but for sure not good enough...
if we had we didn't stuck for 4 hours in traffic!

besides Tehran gets every month 1000 new habitans, they must first do something about that...like:
they can improve education and stuff and work in other cities...so that they not have to move to Tehran anyway trams are a bad idea that's just my opinion... the best is that they expand the metro lines.....
 

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And why do governments bail out their massive (failing) home corporations, because the feel like it or because they have to protect their economy? Actually you are completely proving my point, cheers.
 

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...their roads are soo small that even a paykan can't pass easely....
Paykan mean policeman? In Serbian there is one sleng word for policeman "paykan"...there are some Iranian words in Serbian became by Turkish...
we must do something cause the traffic is getting worse and for sure not better.

but trams are not the sollution they will make the roads even smaller.

Tehran has huge infrastructure problems they must first think about that instead of saying tram? that sounds cool let's build it! haha it's not that cool at all...-.-
- Tramways have separate lanes, and when everything on surface don`t move, tramways still move.
- They are more comfortable for riding, and more friendly for round area. That is the reason why in tramway streets are more shops and other little business objects (it is more comfortable when tram pass near someone then bus or car, by air quality and safety). Sometimes, tramways are parts of pedestrian zones.
- It is cheaper then metro, and it is useful like middle-high capacity transit. The costs of 1km tramway can be 8-10x cheaper then metro.
- Better using of lanes. Capacity of car lane is about 1500-1800 cars/hour with 2000-2500 people/h, walking 10.000 people/h, bus 8.000-15.000, tramway (light rail) 20.000-30.000, subway 40.000-70.000, regional railway truck 100.000-120.000 people/hour. Everything is per one direction (one lane or truck). With traffic lights, capacity can be 30-50% of those datas.
- Max capacity of car lane is at speed 12km/h, busses 20-25 km/h, tramway 30km/h, but if it is articulated 50km/h. As transport unit is longer, capacity and speed with max capacity are higher.
- In some developed and reach cities in Europe (Swiss, Germany), 60-70% people who have car use tramways (or other light rail). But, I don`t know can we compare Iranian and Europen habits? If tramway would be instaled in any Iranian city, and if it would wait 3 years for effect, we would know...
- Subway is unuseful for <2-3km transit.
 

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- Tramways have separate lanes, and when everything on surface don`t move, tramways still move.
- They are more comfortable for riding, and more friendly for round area. That is the reason why in tramway streets are more shops and other little business objects (it is more comfortable when tram pass near someone then bus or car, by air quality and safety). Sometimes, tramways are parts of pedestrian zones.
- It is cheaper then metro, and it is useful like middle-high capacity transit. The costs of 1km tramway can be 8-10x cheaper then metro.
- Better using of lanes. Capacity of car lane is about 1500-1800 cars/hour with 2000-2500 people/h, walking 10.000 people/h, bus 8.000-15.000, tramway (light rail) 20.000-30.000, subway 40.000-70.000, regional railway truck 100.000-120.000 people/hour. Everything is per one direction (one lane or truck). With traffic lights, capacity can be 30-50% of those datas.

- In some developed and reach cities in Europe (Swiss, Germany), 60-70% people who have car use tramways (or other light rail). But, I don`t know can we compare Iranian and Europen habits? If tramway would be instaled in any Iranian city, and if it would wait 3 years for effect, we would know...
- Subway is unuseful for <2-3km transit.
Please bear in mind that we are talking about a city of 14 millions or more. As you correctly elaborated, subway is useful for transit of >2-3 kms. Vali Asr is 19 km down from Meydan Tajrish (north of town) to Rah Ahan (central railway station), see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valiasr_Street. It is the main north-south avenue. A metro line (number 3) is planned along this street and beyond (see http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=4366318&postcount=1), which is of course the only viable public transport system in this case unless you don't want to end up like Istanbul.

In Istanbul a modern tram was built in 1991 from the (periferic) metro station Aksaray to the city center (Sirkeci Railway Station). If you have ever travelled in this line, you know what I mean. Although it has a separate lane, it is always extreemly crowded and very slow due to the long stops for passengers boarding into the crowd.

This does not mean that tram may not be an option for Tehran, as long as it is not a substitute for metro. Metro and suburban rail must be the basic transportaion network for the metropolitan area of Tehran, then comes tram and other surface transport. Tehran also started to built a trolleybus system in 1991, but up to now there is only one line operational (with separate lane) from Emam Hossein to Terminal Shomal (Northern bus terminal).

So it would be another system after metro, otobus barghi (trolleybus) and bus. Every system has a different task to do, so it has to be seen if tram is another option to add. And, yes I know, somebody is talking about monorail - Ahmadi's child when he was mayor of Tehran, now as "elected" president the child has grown up and has become Maglev to Mashad or Jamkaran :)

Trams would indeed be useful for other Iranian cities. And Mashad has built a tram (LRT) which still has no rolling stock on tracks :-(
 

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a tangy drink!
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I think the tram would work very well in conjunction with the metro line. If you have to get to particular place on Valiasr then it may still be relatively far from a metro station and you would use a combination of metro and tram to get there. Or if you are just travelling from one part of Valiasr to another you could just use the tram.
 

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very good idea

valiasr is not connected with the metro. tehran needs to build more trams and lower the amount of buses.

I dont get why peoples objections torwards trams. trams are the same as buses only with a much higher capacity.
did you have any objections against buses in tehran so far?

and one-way streets are something inevitable in big cities
 

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But for example the BRT line in Tehran and Tabriz have the same usage as tram's. When we have BRT lines why do we need tram's which are really used in cities in which the tram line was established 40/50 years ago. I don't think that nowadays a city would establish a tram line... . Some of the cities with tram lines are going to remove the line...
 
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