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But for example the BRT line in Tehran and Tabriz have the same usage as tram's. When we have BRT lines why do we need tram's which are really used in cities in which the tram line was established 40/50 years ago. I don't think that nowadays a city would establish a tram line... . Some of the cities with tram lines are going to remove the line...
as already said trams have a much higher capacity than buses, as you can carry more weight on rails than on tires.
they are more expensive than buses because you have to lay the rails first, but it always proves to be worthy. especially heavily crowded iranian cities need trams for their surface transport, already now all buses are always full to the roof.

also trams are needed next to metros, because the distance between the stations is much less than with a metro (just like buses). riding through two stations in a metro can have you passing two whole city districts
 

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There are many cities putting in tram systems today to reduce the amount of busses and increase capacity. In Europe at least they have been proliferating in recent years. I dont know of any city anywhere actually removing trams. That would be a definate backward step. They did that in the 1950 and 60s in some countries when busses were in fashion and seen as more efficient. But the general consensus on the issue has changed in favour of trams a while back. BRT is usually just a stop-gap measure when the ultimate goal is for a metro, LRT or tram line.
 

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badgir said:
In Istanbul a modern tram was built in 1991 from the (periferic) metro station Aksaray to the city center (Sirkeci Railway Station). If you have ever travelled in this line, you know what I mean. Although it has a separate lane, it is always extreemly crowded and very slow due to the long stops for passengers boarding into the crowd.
In the Istanbul is problem: whereever they dig a ground, they find some arheological reach. That is the reason why after 20 years of building urban rails, they have only short part of M1 underground in old city. Finishing of building under Bosphorus tunel is delayed from 2009 to 2014 because they find some new arheological reaches. Tram in downtown is the most succeseful they could do in that case. I think that that problem would be in Esfahan.
Same problem is in Rome, where after 60 years building metro have only 2 lines.

But for example the BRT line in Tehran and Tabriz have the same usage as tram's. When we have BRT lines why do we need tram's which are really used in cities in which the tram line was established 40/50 years ago. I don't think that nowadays a city would establish a tram line... . Some of the cities with tram lines are going to remove the line...
Look at this link:
http://www.trams-in-france.net
Before 25 years there was only 3 tramlines in all France, now there is 20 cities with tramways, and 10 build it.
After that look at the bottom of this page:
http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/euromet.htm
And pay atention of dates of opening tramlines in west Europe cities.
 

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There are many cities putting in tram systems today to reduce the amount of busses and increase capacity. In Europe at least they have been proliferating in recent years. I dont know of any city anywhere actually removing trams. That would be a definate backward step. They did that in the 1950 and 60s in some countries when busses were in fashion and seen as more efficient. But the general consensus on the issue has changed in favour of trams a while back. BRT is usually just a stop-gap measure when the ultimate goal is for a metro, LRT or tram line.
Look at this link:
http://www.trams-in-france.net
Before 25 years there was only 3 tramlines in all France, now there is 20 cities with tramways, and 10 build it.
After that look at the bottom of this page:
http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/euromet.htm
And pay atention of dates of opening tramlines in west Europe cities.
Okay, I thought the removing of tram lines in some cities would be going on... . However, thank you Herbicide and Rail_Serbia for your information.:)
 

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Dresden, Amsterdam, Zurich and Vienna use cargo trams to reduce pollution in the city centre.
Dresden:

Amsterdam:

Zurich:

Other cities are also planning freight services. :)
 

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i think it will be ugly in tehran to be honest..

ghashaangie tehran be hamine.. tram bezaran dige kheyli bad mishe benazare man.. hamoon metro aaz hamashoon behtare.
 

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^^ It wont be ugly! Traffic jams and streets full of busses are ugly. Trams are the mark of a developed country with advanced infrastructure.
 

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^^ It wont be ugly! Traffic jams and streets full of busses are ugly. Trams are the mark of a developed country with advanced infrastructure.
Believe me it's gonna get ugly and bad if they going to build this in Tehran
this is why they are building it under ground
 

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Believe me it's gonna get ugly and bad if they going to build this in Tehran
this is why they are building it under ground
On what basis do you say that? I have a degree in Transport Management with my honours in Urban Rail Based Public Trasport Infrastructure Development. I know the more rail based tranport you can squeeze into Tehran the better it will be for the city. You dont usually put trams underground except in short underpasses. An underground or elevated line is Metro. As a dense city grows you have to shift an increasing proportion of commuters onto public tranport, prefferably rail based (trams, metro, LRT and urban rail). Cities that dont are either very low density or gridlocked. Tehran is dense and already gridlocked for alot of the time. Shifting more road vehicles off important city centre arterial routes in favour of higher capacity rail based forms of transport i.e. trams that shift more people through the streets more quickly is essential at some point to maintain or improve the economic, social and enviromental health of the city and its central business district. Otherwise gridlock becomes a permanent daytime fixture that adversely affects peoples health and the economy as the people spend too long commuting and the most important areas of the city become almost inaccessible. Pandering to car drivers who are clogging the streets is a recipe for disaster. They need to be taken out of their cars and put on public transport through inducements and penalties. Penalties would include making petrol realistically priced, blocking and restricting access to cars on certain streets and conjestion charging. Inducements would be provided simultaneously and involve the provision of an extensive, efficient, comfortable and cheap public transport network.
 

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Look at picture above, and try imagine that this is stopped clip. And imagine two tram lanes in the middle, and tramways on it. When you turn on clip cars and busses are move still slow, but trams still move, and fast.

Design is the smallest problem. The highest level of automatisation in tramway producing is half-automatic, because the trams order in small batches of products. There are a lot of diferent designs of Alstom Citadis with just same vehicles (tehnicaly).

There would be other problems like safety, politcs and road lobies, tehnical knowledge (To don't do like Mashad, have railtrucks, have second hand rolling stocks, but don't use them. Same vehicles are 17 years still in exploatation in Turkish Konya).

I grew up near tramways (and a lot of people in Europe), but it is hard to explain to someone who have no expirience with trams.
 

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To people who have no experience of trams, trams can carry many times the amount of people that a bus can, are smoother and faster and dont usually get caught in traffic congestion, as they usually have their own lanes. They take thousands of people who would otherwise have made the journey by car or taxi, greatly reducing traffic congestion in the street contrary to your fears that they would rob road space from cars. They also make a significant impact on improving air quality as they are electric while busses spew out alot of exhaust fumes.
They dont look ugly, they can look however you want them to as there are so many different designs of modern trams out there, some of which look absolutely stunning:
 

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Believe me it's gonna get ugly and bad if they going to build this in Tehran
this is why they are building it under ground
I would like to add some pictures to show how tram lines can improve street design:

Barcelona




Can you immagine, let's say, Boulvard Keshavarz with a tram like this?

here is more:







Nantes, France


Amsterdam


All pictures from www.tramway.at by Harald A. Jahn who has written an interesting page about the advantages of modern tramway systems (in German).


In the Istanbul is problem: whereever they dig a ground, they find some arheological reach. That is the reason why after 20 years of building urban rails, they have only short part of M1 underground in old city. Finishing of building under Bosphorus tunel is delayed from 2009 to 2014 because they find some new arheological reaches. Tram in downtown is the most succeseful they could do in that case.
I wanted to show that tram is not an alternative to metro. The Istanbul tram line to the center is definitly overloaded and can never replace the load of a metro. So tram on Vali Asr - as long as we are not talking about the northern section of this avenue - is not an alternative to the planned metro line 3.

In the following map I have drawn the existing metro lines in Tehran
1 (blue)
2 (red)
4 (violet) - central section completed

and the planned line 3 under Vali Asr (green), touching the central railway station in the south (black line).




As we can see all existing and planned metro lines create a dense pattern in the city core, i.e. the area between Enqelab and Sepah (Emam Khomeini) avenues. The lines extend into outer areas and the suburbs. In this frame line 3 (green, under Vali Asr) has an important role as it connects the railway station and reinforces the north-south relation. This cannot be achieved by a tram line.

I also tried to immagine a tram connection (yellow line, 11 km), mainly on the axis from Haft-e-Tir to Meydan Vali Asr and Parkeh Laleh, on Boulvard Karim Khan Zand and Boulvard Keshawarz. It is all but a serious proposal, just to show the role a tramway line could have in Tehran:
secondary to metro but much better than buses.
 

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^^Space is the easiest problem to deal with. $ is what matters!

By fact, Tram will help Iran's mega city look much more modem and desirable.
 

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I like the street design in those pictures but, I don't think that Tehran's streets have enough space for such designs...
Karim Khan Zand has 33 meters, Boulvard Keshavarz has 55 meters and a "normal" main street like Kargar has still 25 meters.

The example in Barcelona (second picture) has 25 m of section. I would say there is plenty of space for a nice design on Tehran's avenues...

Maybe it will be necessary to sacrify one lane of cars, and this may hurt somebody. But the people moved by tram make a much better use of (restricted) urban space, see



218 persons = 1 tram = 2 articulated buses = 145 cars

(courtesy of www.tramway.at)

Ok, in Tehran we do not have 1,5 person per car, but maybe an average of 3. But 72 cars is still a lot more space to be occupied.
 

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I like the street design in those pictures but, I don't think that Tehran's streets have enough space for such designs...
Lack of space is a reason to put trams in. They dont take up as much space as hundreds of cars and busses, which is what would be used otherwise. You need to put passenger journeys onto higher capacity forms of transport when space in the street becomes scarce. You could block access to private cars completley, widen the pavements and put in a grassed central reservation (or even flowerbeds) along which the trams travel when you introduce the trams and more people would be travelling along Valiasr than before. The approximate maximum flow of people along a lane of road is 2000 per hour. This is when its not so busy in Tehran. When it gets busier than that the flow of traffic dramatically reduces as you get heavy traffic and then a traffic jam when the flow of people stops just when its needed most. The more demand there is for a vehicle lane over a limit of 2000 journeys per hour, the less people will actually pass along it.
However the maximum amount of people that can pass along a tram lane per hour is approximately in the region of 16,000 to 20,000 depending on variables in the system implemented. Lanes for trams are the same width practically as vehicle lanes. Also when demand exceeds supply on a tram line you dont get the spectacular collapse in flow of people that you get with a vehicle lane. The tram will just continue to transport people at maximum capacity.
 
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