SkyscraperCity banner

1 - 20 of 162 Posts

·
Strong and Stable
Joined
·
3,981 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Transpennine Electrification probably deserves a thread by now.

The biggest plum for the north in today's autumn statement by the Chancellor of the Exchquer, George Osborne, is going to be the electrification of the trans-Pennine train line, with work probably starting next year.

This isn't just a bonus for Leeds and Manchester, the places normally cited in anything involving the route, but also the North East and Liverpool which lie at each end of the long, cross-country route.

How far the electrification will run remains to be seen, but at the minimum, the Leeds-Manchester section will be half-an-hour shorter on a round trip. That's enough to persuade people all along the line that it's worth fixing a business meeting or taking a tourist trip. But like everything in Osborne's home made pudding, there will be disadvantages as well.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/the-northerner/2011/nov/29/trans-pennine-electrification-network-rail

Despite the fact that trains cascaded from the South might be used, it is at least welcome, and hopefully a start might not be far away, and wityh any luck this line will be electrified from Liverpool through to Hull, Scarborough, Cleethorpes and Middlesbrough. Or might that be asking too much?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,919 Posts
Transpennnine Electrification would certainly be very welcome considering it is a logical extension of the Manchester hub works in addition to the already announced works to electrify the lines from Manchester to Liverpool and Manchester - Preston - Blackpool North with electrification hopefully going to at least Middlesbrough via York and Hull from Leeds in addition to the Manchester - Leeds corridor as well as potentially opening the door for further electrfication of other lines around West Yorkshire.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,224 Posts
Although which line is he actually referring to?

Clearly electrification of the Huddersfield Line would be welcome, but the Manchester Hub plan would see Liverpool - Leeds trains go through Victoria instead, using the Calderdale Line. This too is earmarked for electrification by Metro so...?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
498 Posts
this is the Leeds-Huddersfield-Manchester line currently used by TPexpress trains. To get to Victoria, trains from the east will branch of at Stalybridge and go through Ashton under Lyne rather than Guide Bridge to reach Manchester. This is where a lot of the time saving is made up, as the line between Stalybridge and Guide Bridge is very twisty, and there's a PSR of 50mph between Guide Bridge & Piccadilly.

There will, apparently, be two extra trains per hour between Leeds & Manchester, serving piccadilly, as a replacement of the existing Huddersfield-Piccadilly stoppers. These may also call at Dewsbury & Morley east of Huddersfield, depending on timetabling, which would allow for the withdrawal of all Dewsbury & Stalybridge stops on TP services.

The business case for wiring Micklefield-Hull & Doncaster-Selby is now also being looked at, as it would allow conversion of Hull Trains services to electric traction, and for redirecting of TP services towards Hull. Current thought is that this would be at Middlesbrough & Scarborough's expense, with the current York-Blackpool service being extended to Scarborough, and a new Middlesbrough-Leeds service, with Garforth also losing stops on the longer-distance TP services (which will then, east of Leeds, only serve Hull & Newcastle).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,224 Posts
If Hull Trains is converted to electric traction, there will presumably be a set of Adelantes that could be used on some of the longer distance diesel routes like Blackpool - York (or Scarborough)? This is also a route I always thought should have been under TPE, not Northern- although with franchise changes afoot this is probably due to change anyway.

I thought electrification to Middlesbrough had been proposed? Perhaps it got no further than a proposal. Scarborough had also been mooted.
 

·
Back home
Joined
·
4,027 Posts
To get to Victoria, trains from the east will branch of at Stalybridge and go through Ashton under Lyne rather than Guide Bridge to reach Manchester.
As TP trains used to do when I first moved across the Pennines in 1984.

This is where a lot of the time saving is made up, as the line between Stalybridge and Guide Bridge is very twisty, and there's a PSR of 50mph between Guide Bridge & Piccadilly.
A truly Victorian stretch of transport infrastructure and embarrasingly out-of-place in a modern economy!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
982 Posts
I wonder if the electrification of this line will also mean that the local service between Huddersfield and Leeds via Dewsbury will be run by electric units? I would make sense plus it'd finally mean we could get rid of those horrible pacer units
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,224 Posts
I suppose it depends on the availability of electric units?

If the TPE services are to use old Thameslink stock then we're not in for any new stock, so it would rely on old electric stock coming from elsewhere.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
982 Posts
Hopefully they can find something. Am I right in thinking the acceleration of electric units is better than diesel? If so that'd help in the timetabling
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,224 Posts
Yes much better.

There's quite a few years before this will be complete so there's time to come up with a plan. The government will have to face up to buying new stock at some point though. Only more track will be electrified, and moving stock around the system can only stretch so far.
 

·
ßANNED
Joined
·
4,234 Posts
More important than electrification is the inclusion of more carriages on TP trains, and the doing away of the useless First Class section.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
498 Posts
the 319s being cascaded off Thameslink are scheduled to be used on the suburban services in the Northwest, and, potentially, Merseyrail. The Manchester-Scotland TPE services are being converted to use by new class 350 EMUs, and I'd imagine we'll see the same this side of the pennines.

The most likely alteration is that the Leeds-York & Leeds-Huddersfield stoppers (which will, I imagine, be converted to a single Huddersfield-York stopping service) will be taken over by class 317/7s which are currently lying idle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
982 Posts
Yes much better.

There's quite a few years before this will be complete so there's time to come up with a plan. The government will have to face up to buying new stock at some point though. Only more track will be electrified, and moving stock around the system can only stretch so far.
Yeah buy new rolling stock, give it to london and let the regions have the cast offs
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
218 Posts
Would be nice but doubtful, Hitachi, Siemens and Bombardier seem to be the only mfrs of 'trains' these days - certainly to the UK market. Bombardier famously have production line in derby and hitachi propose to build in Newton Aycliffe if and when the IEP project starts. This could of course release class 91 locos and mark iv coaches in time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
243 Posts
I wonder if the electrification of this line will also mean that the local service between Huddersfield and Leeds via Dewsbury will be run by electric units? I would make sense plus it'd finally mean we could get rid of those horrible pacer units
Pacers will be around for a long time yet as the class is undergoing refurbishment ;-)

We have a lot to be grateful for with those little units to be honest
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,951 Posts
Pacers will be around for a long time yet as the class is undergoing refurbishment ;-)

We have a lot to be grateful for with those little units to be honest
According to wikipedia they have to be withdrawn by 2019 as they'll fall foul of the Disability Discrimination Act.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,472 Posts
I've no problem with first class on long intercity trains where you actually do get a nicer seat and some food etc but it is pointless on TPE when the trains are only 3 carriages. In fact, it's a slap in the face when you have to stand in cattle class.
The situation regarding first class trains on a 90 minute journey max (in most cases) is a joke if you ask me. I've been on TPE trains, and it's not only frustrating to stand up, it's dangerous when you have people standing in the aisle. Transpennine trains really need investment, especially when you consider there is no motorway linking Manchester and Sheffield, the closest we get to that is the M62. I always think if this was the south of England, that motorway would be built no problem. The East Midlands train service is far better and less crowded, which sums up the need for greater investment in Transpennine trains. The Northern hub proposals are welcome, however I am cynical. They come across as just PR lip service.
 
1 - 20 of 162 Posts
Top