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I'd be interested in the details of the upgrading. The removal of level crossings and the at-grade crossing at Newark would be great for the line.
 

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Is the announcement due on Monday regarding Swansea to Cardiff for the GW mainline? Thought work had already started with the GW electrification? Wonder how many times transpennine and other northern hub projects will be announced by govt before work can actually start.

Does transpennine start before midland mainline given we've already been 'announced'!?
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Looks to be only as far as Sheffield though? You'd think it would make sense to go that little bit further and do the Leeds - Sheffield stretch too?
It seems like the Midland Mainline will be electrified to Moorthorpe and Doncaster. And any add-ins should include Derby to Birmingham and Derby to Matlock.
 

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ps60 said:
It seems like the Midland Mainline will be electrified to Moorthorpe and Doncaster. And any add-ins should include Derby to Birmingham and Derby to Matlock.
It would certainly be welcome to see the improvement works to the Midland and East Coast Main Lines. So could the electrification of the Midland Mainline see any chance of the electrification of branches such as Leeds to Sheffield via Barnsley, Chesterfield to Nottingham and Nottingham to Lincoln via Newark? As for electrifying the Cross Country route from Derby to Birmingham is there any chance of the rest of the Cross Country route getting wired?

As for improvements to the ECML surely adding a flyover at Newark, a second Welwyn viaduct, electrification of branches to the likes of Lincoln, Hull, Harrogate, Middlesbrough and Aberdeen and finally having in cab signalling that allows for an increase of speed to 140mph have to be possibilities I'd have thought.
 

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I doubt we'll see a second Leeds - Sheffield line electrified.

I expect the Cross Country line to be electrified later, once GWML, TP and MML have been electrified. Once they've been done, it's just a case of infilling Bristol - Birmingham and Birmingham - Derby.
 

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Why would it mean that?

If anything, it strengthens their argument surely? These improvements mean we don't need HS2, they might say.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
I doubt we'll see a second Leeds - Sheffield line electrified.

I expect the Cross Country line to be electrified later, once GWML, TP and MML have been electrified. Once they've been done, it's just a case of infilling Bristol - Birmingham and Birmingham - Derby.
As I believe Nottingham to Clay Cross Junction is being electrified, it would make sense to electrify the Hallam Line from Meadowhall to Leeds via Barnsley to have full electric running for the Leeds to Nottingham service. And if that gets electrified, then electrification of the line from Barnsley to Huddersfield via Penistone should also take place. Whether these will happen is another story.

As for full Cross Country services, the Birmingham to Bristol should be followed by Bristol to Exeter, Paignton and Plymouth, then maybe all the way to Penzance and Newquay.
 

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Down to the SW is quite a big project though that would cost a lot more. From the government's point of view, Cornwall/Devon aren't particularly economically important so I can't see these lines being electrified soon.

I don't see the Hallam or Penistone Lines being electrified for a while either. Perhaps as infilling later on, but it's unrealistic to expect all the spurs and bits in between to be electrified with the mainline. It's never happened before in the UK so I don't see why it would here.

More likely than the Penistone Line could be a proposal to electrify Carlisle - Skipton, giving a third electrified north-south route. This would be of national importance in allowing long distance trains to divert if either the ECML or WCML were closed. It would also allow crossover between the ECML and WCML, giving potential for a whole host of new routes if the demand was there.
 

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Electrification of the Aberdeen route would be a matter for the Scottish Government. It's vaguely planned for wiring up following the completion of various Central Belt electrification projects, so it's years and years away.
 

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Let's not get carried away here. The electrification announced will be just that and nothing more. Further electrification is likely to take place in the future when money is available, but that could be under a different government (and Labour don't have a great record when it comes to electrification). The IEP programme could mean the justification for electrification on some routes is reduced too.

I expect the Scottish Government would be keen to electrify to Aberdeen as within Scotland, it's an important route. But that only benefits a handful of trains from this region, notably Leeds - Aberdeen.
 

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More important than electrification is the inclusion of more carriages on TP trains, and the doing away of the useless First Class section.
Agreed.

I love these trains like nothing else but at no time have I been able to get a seat on one.
 

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So, from the dft:

Liverpool - Newcastle (via Chat Moss & Victoria) 2 tph - E-train FAST
Man Air - York (via Picc, Ordshall Chord & Vic) 2 tph E-train FAST
Man Pic - Hull (Guide Bridge) 1 tph D-train SEMI-FAST (Diesel)
Man Pic - Selby (Guide Bridge) 1 tph E-train SEMI-FAST

Hudds - Dewsbury - Leeds 2 tph E-train
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Labour's electrification record could have been better, but under Labour, we had HS1 built and electrified, although this was announced under the previous government, and back in 1964, Labour won a General Election after 13 years in Opposition with the West Coast mainline from London to Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool two years away from completion with electrification crews fully occupied. Labour gave the go-ahead for West Coast main line electrification to Glasgow, the third rail electrification to Poole, the Liverpool to Manchester and the Great Western to Bristol and Cardiff. Labour should have done more during their 13 years of power like electrifying the Midland Main line, but the post-privatisation era was a time of very little activity on the electrification front until recently. Nobodys record on electrification is brilliant which explains why only about 35% of the rail network has been electrified so far. That figure ought to at least be doubled to something like 70%.
 

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So, from the dft:

Liverpool - Newcastle (via Chat Moss & Victoria) 2 tph - E-train FAST
Man Air - York (via Picc, Ordshall Chord & Vic) 2 tph E-train FAST
Man Pic - Hull (Guide Bridge) 1 tph D-train SEMI-FAST (Diesel)
Man Pic - Selby (Guide Bridge) 1 tph E-train SEMI-FAST

Hudds - Dewsbury - Leeds 2 tph E-train
Can't understand the logic of just electrifying to Selby considering it isn't that much further to fully wire to Hull and if the Selby to Doncaster line is electrified as well then it would of course have the benefit of allowing for the full electrification of Hull Trains services with the possible electrification of York to Selby also allowing for electric services from York to Hull as well as perhaps allowing some Hull freight services to be electrified. Also I presume this would mean the axing of Middlesbrough services to Manchester which must surely be a bad thing for the Teesside area considering I would have thought Middlebrough would deserve a continuation of the hourly service to Manchester with presumably a truncated Middlesbrough service starting at Leeds or even York although I presume the Blackpool North to York service will be extended to Scarborough (I would have thought there should at least be a half hourly service from York to Scarborough possibly also extending to Leeds and beyond.

Is there any word on what is planned for the East Coast Mainline (Newark flyover, Second Welwyn viaduct, increased running speeds and electrification of branches?) and it would be a shame imo if electrification of the Midland Mainline wasn't extended northwards from Sheffield to Moorthorpe and Doncaster considering usefulness for extended Midland Mainline services as well as local trains and diversions in the event of the ECML being closed (is it just the main Sheffield to Bedford Midland Mainline that is being wired (with the part from Bedford to London St Pancras already electric) in addition to the branch to Nottingham?
 

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Wonder whether infills will become pre election treats? Or left for another time when good news is needed?

Does Harrogate and Calder Valley lines now become part of LCR (and MCR / tfgm) responsibility?

Still, if rolling stock is ordered, it should answer the Pacer question and hopefully some cascading of the 185s which would be far better suited to a semi fast / stopping Calder Valley service than an intercity train that they are now supposed to be.
 

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Wonder whether infills will become pre election treats? Or left for another time when good news is needed?

Does Harrogate and Calder Valley lines now become part of LCR (and MCR / tfgm) responsibility?

Still, if rolling stock is ordered, it should answer the Pacer question and hopefully some cascading of the 185s which would be far better suited to a semi fast / stopping Calder Valley service than an intercity train that they are now supposed to be.
I can't see 185s been used on the Calder Valley route, big and heavy units like that will probably get cascaded elsewhere like other parts fot he First Transpennine operations
 

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I can't see 185s been used on the Calder Valley route, big and heavy units like that will probably get cascaded elsewhere like other parts fot he First Transpennine operations
More likely to see Turbostars on the Calder Valley than the 185s
 

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Does Harrogate and Calder Valley lines now become part of LCR (and MCR / tfgm) responsibility?
This is an interesting curiosity that hasn't really been made clear, nor am I particularly sure at what point funds are going to be handed over to the LCR for the transport pot.

It would make sense, and I hope it becomes the case, that Metro become part of the LCR and administer transport across the whole City Region in a similar set up to TFL and the GLA.

Their stance may well have changed, particularly with the attraction of £1bn, but NYCC were against the transfer of transport powers to Metro under previous proposals for a City Region ITA. Say what you want about Metro, but compared to NYCC, they're very progressive.

I suppose North Yorkshire suffers from being a largely rural county with funding spread widely, even though Skipton, Harrogate and Selby are very much commuter belt rather than rural. We need a transport authority that can reflect this reality.

I can't see 185s been used on the Calder Valley route, big and heavy units like that will probably get cascaded elsewhere like other parts fot he First Transpennine operations
There's no guarantee that they'd stay in the north, but if they did I doubt there would be enough demand for their use on TPEs network when so much of it would be electrified.

Some could go to Northern's longer distance operations like Blackpool - York (Scarborough), and Leeds - Nottingham.
 

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There's no guarantee that they'd stay in the north, but if they did I doubt there would be enough demand for their use on TPEs network when so much of it would be electrified.
I wonder if they may end up in the south-west (which got the cast-offs from the last TPE stock upgrade). I imagine they'd work quite well between Exeter and Penzance.
 
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