SkyscraperCity banner

5561 - 5580 of 5621 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,784 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,593 Posts
Obvious point

But the trams will need charging at some point

Was in Seville couple of years ago where they have overhead lines away from the centre to charge the batteries which then take over in the historical centre

Suspect similar would be required in hilly city like Leeds

Also, not that matters, but depending on the volume of batteries being carried it would presumably have an influence over high or low floored trams, high floors obviously able to carry more batteries below the floor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,593 Posts
That is a massively complex system, they had all sorts of issues getting it working.

For safety reasons only the electricity supply below the tram at any time can be live.

To best of my knowledge no other area has ever tried to replicate it given the troubles experienced in Bordeaux, but I may be wrong.
 

·
Carl Shutt ruined my life
Joined
·
829 Posts
Battery powered with no overhead lines to boot.

Thank god they’re showing some ambition rather than trying to shoe-horn a cheap and cheerful option in (which is effectively all that Trolleybus was).
I definitely think this is a step in the right direction. Battery trams work fine in other cities such as Seville (and I think Brum) so there's no reason why the can't be a success here. Just having a look at the potential map that was put out last year and thinking about which line I would start with. Although line 1 (orange line) would probably deliver the best return financially, it's also probably the most complex to build and will also be impacted by National infrastructure issues more. Therefore if the aim is to accelerate this project at speed I would probably say build line 3 (green line) first even though it won't benefit me day to day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
The same group currently running LNER are going to be running it, so they'll probably do what they did for those trains, just go straight over the logo as a whole. Not sure whether they're changing logos or anything though
The east coast was different in that the outgoing operator used the well-known brand name Virgin, so the state-run replacement needed a different brand.

Whereas ‘northern’ is more like a description of the service area rather than associated with a specific operator or brand, so it should be OK for the state operator to keep it.

Having said that, at the previous franchise change, when the former operator known as Northern was replaced by the current Northern, they still covered up all the old logos — as though it would be terrible for customers to see the word ‘Northern’ in the wrong font. Again, not a logo that the outgoing operator needed to protect.

given they would need to go to the trouble of replacing the blue parts on all of the trains to get rid too.
Why? LNER said they specifically chose a red colour scheme to avoid repainting costs.
 

·
Carl Shutt ruined my life
Joined
·
829 Posts
I definitely think this is a step in the right direction. Battery trams work fine in other cities such as Seville (and I think Brum) so there's no reason why the can't be a success here. Just having a look at the potential map that was put out last year and thinking about which line I would start with. Although line 1 (orange line) would probably deliver the best return financially, it's also probably the most complex to build and will also be impacted by National infrastructure issues more. Therefore if the aim is to accelerate this project at speed I would probably say build line 3 (green line) first even though it won't benefit me day to day.
It's also interesting that this story has come out a day after the govt met with WY leaders to talk about progressing the WY devolution deal. I imagine the reps from WY were pushing mass transit funding as part of any agreed deal. The optimist in me thinks we could all be quite happy come budget day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
The east coast was different in that the outgoing operator used the well-known brand name Virgin, so the state-run replacement needed a different brand.

Whereas ‘northern’ is more like a description of the service area rather than associated with a specific operator or brand, so it should be OK for the state operator to keep it.

Having said that, at the previous franchise change, when the former operator known as Northern was replaced by the current Northern, they still covered up all the old logos — as though it would be terrible for customers to see the word ‘Northern’ in the wrong font. Again, not a logo that the outgoing operator needed to protect.


Why? LNER said they specifically chose a red colour scheme to avoid repainting costs.
It's more that the Northern livery currently primarily plays off the circular part of the logo in different colours, so if they made a new logo they would have to remove it all from the livery which would be more effort than it's worth given it's basically the whole design, it's base white otherwise.

Also I believe one the the requirements made when Virgin took over from East Coast was that they would use vinyl over the trains rather than paint or anything else, so that the franchise after it could just strip it all off and go back to East Coast which they never ended up doing, I wonder why they didn't do that?

In terms of colour, I think they actually kept the red because most of the Azumas already had interiors and it would have been a waste of money to rip everything back out to change it, they did repaint all the exteriors on them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
That is a massively complex system, they had all sorts of issues getting it working.

For safety reasons only the electricity supply below the tram at any time can be live.

To best of my knowledge no other area has ever tried to replicate it given the troubles experienced in Bordeaux, but I may be wrong.
The Alstom APS system is in use or being installed in France:

  • Bordeaux
    Angers
    Reims
    Nice
    Marseille
    Orléans
    Tours
Others:

  • Dubai
    Rio de Janeiro
    Sydney
    Cuenca (Ecuador)
The Ansaldo TramWave system (similar to APS) is in use in Zhuhai and Beijing (China)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,784 Posts
The Alstom APS system is in use or being installed in France:



  • Bordeaux

    Angers

    Reims

    Nice

    Marseille

    Orléans

    Tours


Others:



  • Dubai

    Rio de Janeiro

    Sydney

    Cuenca (Ecuador)


The Ansaldo TramWave system (similar to APS) is in use in Zhuhai and Beijing (China)


They all seem like very hot and dry places. Isn’t the biggest issue we have that 1. it rains all the time so would short the connection and 2. leaves would clog the line?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,593 Posts
The Alstom APS system is in use or being installed in France:

  • Bordeaux
    Angers
    Reims
    Nice
    Marseille
    Orléans
    Tours
Others:

  • Dubai
    Rio de Janeiro
    Sydney
    Cuenca (Ecuador)
The Ansaldo TramWave system (similar to APS) is in use in Zhuhai and Beijing (China)
Big thanks

Am very out of touch
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,207 Posts
One interesting paragraph from the combined authority report relates to the mass transit market testing which has been ongoing for a short while. The feedback from industry specialists will shape the direction of any bid (which is being accelerated).

https://westyorkshire.moderngov.co.uk/documents/s14791/Item 11 - Leeds City Region Mass Transit.pdf

Around 120 organisations are taking part in the market testing, from sectors including monorail/pod/bus/tram/train manufactuers and operators and consultancies as well as interested stakeholder groups. With the market testing in its final stages of completing, the full feedback is anticipated to be
reported to Transport Committee in March, but typical messages received from the market testing so far include:

 Segregation of public transport from general traffic is the most important
factor for journey reliability and journey times regardless of the type of
vehicle

 As part of an integrated transport strategy, bus, light rail and heavy rail all
have an important role. The choice between modes is dependent on level
of capacity required and the ambitions of the region

 Regardless of the public transport mode, meaningfully managing down
car demand is essential to have any impact on public transport and
reducing congestion, cutting carbon and improving air quality

 Transit technologies already exist for autonomous operations, but only in
a fully segregated environment (for example, Docklands Light Railway)

 Transit systems which require some interface with car/pedestrians are
very likely to continue to require a driver over the next decade due to
standards, safety and certification challenges

 Autonomous cars are not a solution to mass transit, they are likely to
make congestion worse

 In the short to medium term, battery technologies are likely to be the most
viable option, but it is increasingly realistic to plan for end-to-end systems
which do not need overhead wires

 Almost all major cities are investing in a combination of bus, bus rapid
transit and light rail

 New systems have the opportunity to make use of 21st Century digital
technologies which will help to revolutionise how mass transit systems are monitored, operated and maintained (for example, moving from a cyclical maintenance regime to the ondemand monitoring system to enable component replacement prior to it failing).

2.16. The full feedback is anticipated within the next few months. The evidence received through the market testing will be used to inform and shape the mass transit strategic outline business case as it develops during 2020. As the business case develops, the next steps would include engagement with local communities to consider the best routes and the blend of transit technologies (which could include bus rapid transit and light rail/tram) that are best required to meet their needs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,593 Posts
I read that as any plans are years and years away

They're discussing modes of transport

Not remotely close to identifying most appropriate mode for the specifics of any corridor

This is Metrolink in about 1986 to be blunt
 

·
B*tch
Joined
·
14,874 Posts
Yeah, the only hot and dry place on that list is Dubai. Those French places largely have maritime climates like the UK, and Sydney/Rio, while warm, are also very wet. Leeds really isn’t a wet city at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,847 Posts
Consultation launched for improvements at Fink Hill, Horsforth.
Good to widen the A6120 between the A65 and Fink Hill junctions considering it is such a bottleneck although ideally the A6120 really could do with widening in full to two lanes in each direction.

As it turns out, the new name for Northern will be... ...Northern, presumably they're sticking with the same brand and just finishing off the existing refurbishments to the trains rather than having to change it all again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_(future_train_operating_company)
Not surprised to see Northern Rail nationalised. Will Northern be kept as a single franchise or could it be split into North Western and North Eastern franchises? Certainly railways around West Yorkshire could be so much better than what they are at present.

Would be great to see a tram system in Leeds although there has been so many cancelled transport schemes it would be right to be cynical over such proposals unless work is actually done to get such works built.

On a final note I have seen on LNER's Twitter that some Intercity 225's will be retained until after the December 2021 timetable change. Good to see the continued use of such stock on the East Coast Main Line considering they still seem like decent trains although I thought the original intention was to have Azumas replace all pre-existing stock. Also the main disadvantage for the 225's is that they cannot run on non electrified railways.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29,136 Posts
Discussion Starter #5,578
Perhaps missed in the shadow of the HS2 announcement, Johnson also stated that Harrogate station is to be re-signalled.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,847 Posts
5561 - 5580 of 5621 Posts
Top