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Trivandrum Tiger
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Thanks, AKS and Sudheesh for adding your perspectives to what I said.



I am sick and tired of hearing this myth propagated all over the place. Just to put the record straight, 26% of CIAL is owned by the Govt. of Kerala which is the largest shareholder. Another 26% is owned by HUDCO. Air India holds 10%, while Federal Bank and State Bank of Travancore hold large stakes. Most of the remainder is held by just 4 persons - all Gulf-based businessmen. Only a very minor stake is held by the general public. At best, CIAL is a PPP type project, it is definitely not private - not when the majority stake is held by the Govt. or by PSUs. Indeed, it is officially called a "joint-sector" project.(Link)

As for the whole discussion, let me state once more that I have no grudges against our expats, I just wish that they took as much interest in Kerala as you gentlemen.

And yes, New Orleans got dunked by Katrina and Mumbai gets dunked annually, I doubt whether those events are shining examples of efficiency. I am all for flood control, just that I believe it is not an overnight solution.
Hi Ajay,

I agree with you here. However, I have difference of opinion in r/o ur previous posting.
 

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Trivandrum Tiger
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^^ - Gentlemen, the Govt. had conducted extensive public consultations about the project. The same had been reported on this forum and the media. Perhaps, your suggestions may have been of better use then and not now.

The project being implemented now has been designed after extensive discussion and study by competent agenices including external experts. So, let's give it a chance before condemning it.

Thirdly, please do not forget that Trivandrum has grown ten times or more since the "British/Travancore" era. So that ghost of a British engineer or a revitalised retired lecturer may not even recognise the city. Plans have to change with the times, so do people.

Fourthly, Trivandrum is not Dubai or China where one can evict thousands of people without notice or throw billions of tons of sand to build castles in the sea. This is a democracy, like it or not, and things are slower here. But in the long run, they probably are better off.

And finally, if we had a little help and interest from the massive diaspora of our State, things would have improved a long while ago. Except for a few businessmen here and there who bring in some investment, the biggest contribution seen from expat mallus elsewhere in India and the world is to complain the loudest about their home state.

In any gathering, the person complaining the loudest about Kerala's "trade unions" would be a mallu. How often do you see a Gujarathi or Bihari belittling their own states? Perhaps, we are all too smart for our good. Literacy has given rise to the urge to complain than to be constructive.

It is up to us to change and appreciate our beautiful state. And then to do something positive for it. Small bits perhaps, but with 15 million expats out there, that is a hell of a lot of small bits. Maybe then the politicians and bureaucrats will wake up.

Several schemes / projects were implemented to solve the problem @ Thampanoor by the various Government agencies - both under UDF & LDF rule. The net result was a big zero. Only Crores drianed through the "AAmaizhanjaan" & finally to the Arabian Sea. So before taking another chance we have to be critical. However, as Ajay has suggested, we shall take mone more chance. But what if the new project also fails?

There is no need to bring the Ghosts of the British Engineers to understand the real fact behind the flooding waters @ Thampanoor. Any layman would understand the problems due to gravity, terrain, topography etc. Ask a child studying in first grade to tell the reason why water is flooding @ Thampanoor.
The problem that I had been highlighting is that our Planners, Engineers & Politicians know "everything" , but inorder to make this as a "Golden egg laying duck", they never want to solve the problem permanently. Year after year, they make new projects and fill up their pockets.


The very "Success" of Dubai (?, Ofcourse, the Dubai Market has collapsed as of now). is a simple formula. ie. Vision + Will Power + Media Hype.
What our Administrators lack is the Vision (may be due to poor outlook or due to narrow minded policitcal ideologies) and Willpower (Can't have it as most of the politicians have to surrender everything for the sake of a "SEAT"). About Media hypes - Valiya Chilavulla kaaryam alla - We have enough or more media those boosts, boasts and tarnishes projects and cities, according to their wills & fancies, inorder to safe guard the vested interests of the business houses or political parties sponsoring these media. There absolutely are No "Freethinking Media Men" in Kerala. If he writes or speaks the reality, the very next day, he shall be out of the media establishment.

Does this mean that Democracy is bad? What about developments in the democratic countries ? It is not the democracy that is causing problems to Kerala; but the misinterpretation of democracy and the malfunctioning of this great ideology that creates hurdles for Kerala's Development. The UDF blindly opposes the projects by LDF and vice versa. BJP is also on the same boat. All political parties claim "Everything was fine during the 3 or 5 years while we ruled". The common man, who analyses the politicial situation in an unbaised way knows the reality. Still he goes to the Polling Booth & votes for the "Thammil Bhaedam Thomman", as he respects Democracy.

As a matter of fact, the Expat Mallus, never criticise their country or state or city when they are in another forum. Outside India we are all real Indians and all act as good "Business Ambassadsors" of India only. But @ home, we have to criticise, we are to criticise - without fear or favour - as we feel then only some changes could be made.

About the "Trade Unions" - they are good. But what about the Trade Union leaders of Kerala, who have massive landed and other properties, who made all these out of the blood of the hardworking labour force? What about malpractices like "Nokku Kooli", "Bhoothappanam", "Thodukooli" and all?

"Urangunnavane Unarthaam" - "Urakkam Nadichu Kidakkunna Nammude Politicianeyum, Bureaucrat neayum engine Unarthaam".
 

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And for your information, NRI money is not accounted for calculation of domestic product by the Govt. Please go through the pages of 'Indian Economy Thread'. Somewhere Sun had posted the abstract numbers.

Finally there is a term called 'Per Capita GDP'.
I know that Gross Domestic product means the one which is domestically produced . In terms of GDP kerala lags behind so many other states . But
for Per capita income part if it's (Gross Development State Product - NRI remittance) /the population of Kerala. then i would bet Kerala would fall way back .
 

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^^It seems that you are not much knowledgeable about the macro economics of the country or terms like GDP/percapita GDP etc. A thing does not become true if you repeat it many times.

I reiterate, for these calculations, NRI remittances are not taken in to account.

GDP is defined as the total cost of all finished goods and services produced within the country in a stipulated period of time

GDP = consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)

GDP percpita is obtained when it is divided by the population.

For the year 2006-07, the percapita state domestic product under constant prices were

Kerala: Rs. 27284
TN: Rs. 25898
Punjab: Rs.30158
Karnataka: Rs. 23028.

Nowhere here do the NRI remittances are taken in to account. Hope you know that NRIs are free from taxation, whereas more than 30% of the earnings of professionals like us are taken by the Govt.

And one more thing, Kerala is now left behind by States like TN and Andhra as far as migration of people is concerned, including the middle east.
 

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^^It seems that you are not much knowledgeable about the macro economics of the country or terms like GDP/percapita GDP etc. A thing does not become true if you repeat it many times.

I reiterate, for these calculations, NRI remittances are not taken in to account.

GDP is defined as the total cost of all finished goods and services produced within the country in a stipulated period of time

GDP = consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)

GDP percpita is obtained when it is divided by the population.

For the year 2006-07, the percapita state domestic product under constant prices were

Kerala: Rs. 27284
TN: Rs. 25898
Punjab: Rs.30158
Karnataka: Rs. 23028.

Nowhere here do the NRI remittances are taken in to account. Hope you know that NRIs are free from taxation, whereas more than 30% of the earnings of professionals like us are taken by the Govt.

And one more thing, Kerala is now left behind by States like TN and Andhra as far as migration of people is concerned, including the middle east.
Seems you lag in practical know how of economics rather than some bookish stuff .

Your textual formulas like this are right

GDP = consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)

i understand that NRI money is not directly added for considering GDP. But dont people understand the fact that a chunk of this " unworthy" NRI money is being spent on a large scale as far as the "consumption" factor that you said i s concerned. and for your kind info this consumption part contributes the most to the GDSP of kerala as we all know the "big volume " of investments flowing to the state & the taxes and levies collected by the government as a result of this consumption is a part of this govt spending.
 

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^^I had asked you to read my first post clearly. I had mentioned about 'consumption' there. A main chunk could be from NRIs too.

And it is the same for other states like TN & Andhra. My point is to counter your argument that if NRI money is not there, Kerala would be much behind other states.
 

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^^I had asked you to read my first post clearly. I had mentioned about 'consumption' there. A main chunk could be from NRIs too.

And it is the same for other states like TN & Andhra. My point is to counter your argument that if NRI money is not there, Kerala would be much behind other states.
Thanks my friend . Here ends the issue

I reiterate my stand , even in the present circumstances NRI money & legacy is driving Kerala .Hope you read about the importance of airports to IT & Tourism . even leading states likes karnataka & TN are facing hurdles for their Tier 2 level expansions on grounds of connectivity. All these airports in Kerala sustained & still sustain czz of this NRI traffic and not from the domestic revenues .& comparing the negligible percentage of NRI's from Andhra & Tamil Nadu in terms of the population of these respective states Vs Kerala
where more than 10% of the total population are Non residents is like an -- unfortunate mistake . Also unlike TN & Andhra where majority of expatriates are scattered across gulf -US - Singapore etc etc - The volume of their remittance back home would be poor
VS keralites where a vast majority of NRI's are concentrated in the middle east , who have no other option other than to send money home.
 

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You can have your own beliefs, I dont think NRI money alone is driving Kerala.

Anyway my primary contention was about your statement that 'The state doesnot 'produce' anything.

And as I said, TN has already beaten Kerala in the number of migrants to Gulf. I had seen a report recently. And South Tamilnadu has a major chunk of the traffic to the Gulf from Trivandrum International Airport.

I reiterate my stand , even in the present circumstances NRI money & legacy is driving Kerala .
 

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Trivandrum Tiger
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You can have your own beliefs, I dont think NRI money alone is driving Kerala.

Anyway my primary contention was about your statement that 'The state doesnot 'produce' anything.

And as I said, TN has already beaten Kerala in the number of migrants to Gulf. I had seen a report recently. And South Tamilnadu has a major chunk of the traffic to the Gulf from Trivandrum International Airport.
This is a real fact.
If we go to the Hospitals, Petrol Stations & Restaurants of the AGCC countries, we can find a decline in the Mallu Labour Force.
But that was not the condition 2 or 3 decades back. Gulf was Malayalees' own "Kuthaka".

Today, in hospitals, we see Filipna & Indonesian Nurses in place of Malayali Nurse Ammamaar from the Central Travancore belt.
In Gas stations, we find more of Filipnos, Filipnas and Bengalis as workers. Same condition in the Restaurants too?
Take the construction field - most of the workers are from Andhra or Tamil Nadu. Take the real estate field, as being ruled by other people.

Why all these has happened?

What went wrong with Malayalee's behaviour?
Just as had happened for the Civil Service, Malayali is far behind in Gulf too. Why?
We have to think and assess ourselves.
lack of soft skills?
lack of outlook and attitudinal problems?
Failure to be Polite including the inhibition to say "Sorry", "Thanks" etc etc?
Shyness to speak English?

What ever be the reason, the Mallu work force in the ME is getting deteriorated day by day.

May be we have more international airports in Kerala in proportion to our area & population. All the airlines of the AGCC are starting new services to airports like Coimbatore, Trichy, Nagpur etc etc. Why?

(Please note that other places have been mentioned not to tarnish them. All those places should grow. But had to mention, to highlight the failure of Mallu).
 

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Trivandrum Lobbyist
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^^ - Arun, firstly no one is calling NRI remittances "unworthy". Let's be clear on that.

A lot of the remittances ends up in the form of investments like real estate, gold and bank deposits which do not impact the real economy or the GSDP much.

What you have said about the airports is partly correct, although our three airports combined still fall far short of metro airports which also have far better connectivity. Till recently, when mid-east airlines improved their connectivity to destinations in the US and Europe, our airports had no connection to these destinations. It was a virtual shuttle service to the Gulf, so it did little for IT or other industries which are based elsewhere.

The point is clear, NRKs have their place but they are just one part of the much larger picture.

And I disagree with the view that all NRKs speak only positives about Kerala, I have personally come across many "holier-than-thou" loudmouths who only have complaints and no solutions. Which is why I said you gentlemen here are among the section which is an asset to Kerala and not a PR disaster. Thanks a bunch for that, folks! :)
 

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Trivandrum Lobbyist
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Let's Shape the Future....

We have often discussed the need for a brand new Master Plan for Trivandrum which anticipates and accomodates the demand for the next 20 to 30 years. The plan currently in effect is nearly 30 years old!

In October 2008, prominent NGO's including TDF, EDIT, CCDF, FRAT and TRAC aproached Trivandrum Development Authority (TRIDA) with the urgent need for a new Master Plan. TRIDA was very receptive to the idea. After several rounds of discussions, it has been decided to conduct a comprehensive Seminar where the direction of growth of the city, the consequent demand for urban facilities and the strategy to cater to the growth will be discussed in detail by leading experts in the field as well as people's representatives including Ministers, MPs and MLAs. The Seminar, scheduled for January 28th and 29th, 2009, will aim to create a white paper that will form the foundation for the Master Plan for the Trivandrum Capital Region.

This is possibly the best chance in a long time for all of us to make a contribution to how our city will evolve in the years to come. Time to put our thoughts to good use!!

I am honored to be one of the speakers invited to speak at the seminar, where I will be presenting a look-ahead at how the IT and Knowledge Industries will develop in the Trivandrum Capital Region, on behalf of the Trivandrum Development Front.

Please chip in with all your valuable suggestions at the earliest. A dedicated page to the seminar has been launched on the TDF website. Please let us have all your suggestions by January 26th, so that we can collate and present them at the seminar. Looking forward to hearing from all your development stalwarts out there. Thanks in advance, folks!
 

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And I disagree with the view that all NRKs speak only positives about Kerala, I have personally come across many "holier-than-thou" loudmouths who only have complaints and no solutions. Which is why I said you gentlemen here are among the section which is an asset to Kerala and not a PR disaster. Thanks a bunch for that, folks! :)
I retreat guys........:) with these comments --- You are right Ajay..As in any other population even there may be people among NRI's who have tounges aroun their neck . They might blabber & exaggerate the situation. But the contributions of NRK's within their limitations outsmart these odds.politely how many of us can say that what happens back in our nadu is cent percent right . we would excuse it by saying it's democracy unlike other places . We fail to denounce the negative attitude of a bunch of people (say trade unions ) czz they are organized. I dont think NRK's abroad are doing more crime towards development by their mere words than the handful of trade unions do to our state.The matter of fact is that we are taking undue advantage of the privileges provided home .I am sure if the trade union zindabad & hartal attitude had not been there then NRK's would have invested atleast 100 fold more in key business areas in Kerala.Thanks
 

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Trivandrum Tiger
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I retreat guys........:) with these comments --- You are right Ajay..As in any other population even there may be people among NRI's who have tounges aroun their neck . They might blabber & exaggerate the situation. But the contributions of NRK's within their limitations outsmart these odds.politely how many of us can say that what happens back in our nadu is cent percent right . we would excuse it by saying it's democracy unlike other places . We fail to denounce the negative attitude of a bunch of people (say trade unions ) czz they are organized. I dont think NRK's abroad are doing more crime towards development by their mere words than the handful of trade unions do to our state.The matter of fact is that we are taking undue advantage of the privileges provided home .I am sure if the trade union zindabad & hartal attitude had not been there then NRK's would have invested atleast 100 fold more in key business areas in Kerala.Thanks

One of the reasons behind the development of Bangalore & Coimbatore, where Malayalees have a great stake in the commerce & industries.
 

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^^BTW Jaleel, on an absolute scale and quality of life, I would not say Bangalore is more developed than Trivandrum. And it is established by the dossiers of business consultants like JLLM or Knight Frank.

Here I can have a good quality of life, only if I have proportionately higher income. But in Trivandrum or Kerala, everybody has a more equable quality of life. I see cab drivers, construction workers, home maids, other workers in a much worse life standards in Bangalore when compared with those back home. The infrastructure here is not better, water supply is almost non existant in most places as well as drainage, power cuts are frequent etc. Some time recently there were two hours power cut daily, and the life was hell during diesel shortage. I had to buy Diesel for my car for double the price. The monthly maintenance of apartment was increased by Rs. 500 due to the power cuts.

And no accountability for common man. All might have heard about the building crash of a reputed builder. All the fourteen floors came crashing down, during working hours. And no casualty!!!!! Many labourers would have died, but nothing leaked out of the boundary walls. Dead body of a worker was reported to be foundout several days after from the debris. And another guard was found dead in a railway track. No news in media, nothing at all. I was thinking had it been in Kerala, what would have been the outcome. I took pride in the fact that I belonged to Kerala and things would be different. I know, while I was in SFS, we had to make pucca work sheds with portable toilets for the migrant workers from orissa, bihar and bengal.(Anyway workers messed up the drainage and other things since they were not used to those). Here the workers live in open lands adjoining the construction sites.

The mallus doing business in Bangalore are mostly those from Malabar owning hotels and bakeries only. Anyway good thing for me that I need not speak any other language than my mother tongue in any of the bakeries, super markets or hotels which I go.

As Ajay said earlier, we, as a State are better off in many respects. Travel just 5-10 kms from the boundaries of Bangalore city and you will feel the difference in quality of life..

I am more of a right wing man (not leftist), white collared, but having known the labour situation of Kerala during my 7 year old stint back home, I would never put all blame on them. We have better labour practices, higher wages, more accountability, which in fact reflects in the Physical Quality of Life Indices of our society. There are issues like Jaleel pointed out, but still on a macro level things are better as the whole society is concerned. In Bangalore there are more chances of occurence of a crime related to inequalities of wealth when compared to Trivandrum.
 

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nyker
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Well said Sudheesh !!!

You begin to appreciate Kerala inspite of all its drawbacks when you begin living in other places. No place is perfect. I have lived in different countries and have learned to appreciate the good things they have to offer. In my odd 40 years on this planet I have only lived 12 years in Kerala yet I fee Kerala is the best especially my dear little cute Kollam.:)
 

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C. S. Babu
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^^ - Arun, firstly no one is calling NRI remittances "unworthy". Let's be clear on that.

A lot of the remittances ends up in the form of investments like real estate, gold and bank deposits which do not impact the real economy or the GSDP much.

. Thanks a bunch for that, folks! :)
Ajay, I agree with you in this, many NRIs prefer to keep the savings as FCNRs, invest in real estate and like. I would say this is partly because of the lack of other investment options. I cannot put money into someone's startup without knowing his/her company's performance. And instituitional investors do not need my investment, they have their own money.

One solution could be that GoK can promote small companies, say, in the services sector, and the NRI's can take rupee loans from FCNRs and invest there. And, to do that there should be sound laws as well.
 

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Quote from projects thread......

Palayam-Chackai road to meet its ‘almost choiceless’ fate

Source: expressbuzz.com

Palayam-Chackai road to meet its ‘almost choiceless’ fate

Source: expressbuzz.com
Quote:

THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: The PWD will try its best to protect the Palayam-Chackai road, developed under the CRIP, from the attack of JCBs sent by the KWA.

But, even the Minister is not sure whether he can save the road, which was renovated recently by spending crores of rupees.

The KWA had asked the PWD for permission to dig the Palayam-Chackai road to lay pipes for the JBIC drinking water project.

While the KWA holds that the pipeline is important to deal with water shortage in the area, the Road Fund Board has not yet given permission to the KWA for digging one of the finest roads in the city.

“A meeting of Water Resources Minister N.K. Premachandran, V. Sivankutty MLA, V. Surendran Pillai MLA, and Mayor C. Jayan Babu was convened recently. I have asked the KWA to look for an alternative and spare the road,” Works Minister Mons Joseph told a press conference.

“But since the project is aimed at providing drinking water to the city, we can’t say a firm no,” he said.

That means, the Minister and his Department will try every option to avoid a road disaster. If no option comes up, Palayam-Chackai road will do a Vattiyoorkavu road soon.

The KWA had earlier said that it had no other choice but to cut open the road to lay the pipeline.

It would be done only after paying to the Road Fund Board the amount required for restoration.

Cheers!!!

One doubt......Is it necessary that the KWA pipes has to be laid jus below the roads by digging them.....y cant those be laid at the side of the road, bbelow the foot path?

Also, there was a news about KSEB laying underground cables......where will this be laid? After the roadss are laid after the KWA project??? :eek:hno:
 

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Trivandrum Tiger
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^^BTW Jaleel, on an absolute scale and quality of life, I would not say Bangalore is more developed than Trivandrum. And it is established by the dossiers of business consultants like JLLM or Knight Frank.

Here I can have a good quality of life, only if I have proportionately higher income. But in Trivandrum or Kerala, everybody has a more equable quality of life. I see cab drivers, construction workers, home maids, other workers in a much worse life standards in Bangalore when compared with those back home. The infrastructure here is not better, water supply is almost non existant in most places as well as drainage, power cuts are frequent etc. Some time recently there were two hours power cut daily, and the life was hell during diesel shortage. I had to buy Diesel for my car for double the price. The monthly maintenance of apartment was increased by Rs. 500 due to the power cuts.

And no accountability for common man. All might have heard about the building crash of a reputed builder. All the fourteen floors came crashing down, during working hours. And no casualty!!!!! Many labourers would have died, but nothing leaked out of the boundary walls. Dead body of a worker was reported to be foundout several days after from the debris. And another guard was found dead in a railway track. No news in media, nothing at all. I was thinking had it been in Kerala, what would have been the outcome. I took pride in the fact that I belonged to Kerala and things would be different. I know, while I was in SFS, we had to make pucca work sheds with portable toilets for the migrant workers from orissa, bihar and bengal.(Anyway workers messed up the drainage and other things since they were not used to those). Here the workers live in open lands adjoining the construction sites.

The mallus doing business in Bangalore are mostly those from Malabar owning hotels and bakeries only. Anyway good thing for me that I need not speak any other language than my mother tongue in any of the bakeries, super markets or hotels which I go.

As Ajay said earlier, we, as a State are better off in many respects. Travel just 5-10 kms from the boundaries of Bangalore city and you will feel the difference in quality of life..

I am more of a right wing man (not leftist), white collared, but having known the labour situation of Kerala during my 7 year old stint back home, I would never put all blame on them. We have better labour practices, higher wages, more accountability, which in fact reflects in the Physical Quality of Life Indices of our society. There are issues like Jaleel pointed out, but still on a macro level things are better as the whole society is concerned. In Bangalore there are more chances of occurence of a crime related to inequalities of wealth when compared to Trivandrum.

Yes Sudheesh, Naadu Naadu thanney.
Take the case of any "modern & well developed" cities.
Just take the case of Dubai, where they boost about "Life Style & Quality".
It is only for the Upper Upper Class. Even for an Upper Middle Class family, good housing is a nightmare .. and I believe, this is the case in each & every city.
Trivandrum has a range of hotels suited to all budgets.
 

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Trivandrum Tiger
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Quote from projects thread......




One doubt......Is it necessary that the KWA pipes has to be laid jus below the roads by digging them.....y cant those be laid at the side of the road, bbelow the foot path?

Also, there was a news about KSEB laying underground cables......where will this be laid? After the roadss are laid after the KWA project??? :eek:hno:
.. and it is the very same KWA Engineers who had been continuously & miserably failing to solve the flooding @ Thampanoor. They are highly inefficient & are negligent to take the right decision at the right time. These guys should be taxed for the lapses on their end. If a single case wherein the entire cost of digging & reinstation is recovered from the salary of those responsible for delaying the process, they won't repeat the same.
 
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