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sorry this post is soo long but i thought it was an interesting read- also its several articals with the most recent first.

• May 11, 2005 | 3:37 p.m. ET

Twin Towers model at MSNBC (David Shuster)

I've been getting phone calls and e-mails all morning from my colleagues at MSNBC's main studios. Today, engineer Ken Gardner brought his 9-foot model of the Twin Towers that he and others at have proposed. The segment was incredible... and I think, for a brief moment today, we saw why so many people feel it is so important that newer, safer, stronger Twin Towers be built at Ground Zero.

We've posted dozens of your e-mails in this very space. Today, however, I'd like to share a statement from engineer Ken Gardner who graciously brought his inspiring vision to MSNBC studios today:

Statement by Kenneth Gardner:

After literally hundreds of hours of study of the WTC site, architect Herbert Belton and I concluded that the appropriate solution for rebuilding is to design new towers that restore the skyline to its former glory. Our plan is a design for completely new buildings that bring back the familiar iconic silhouettes and employ all of the latest technologies in skyscraper design.

Those that advocate rebuilding the towers with the exact former outdated design are unrealistic and academically bankrupt. However, building new advanced versions of the Twin Towers would not only provide one of the most powerful remedies to heal this country from the 9/11 tragedy, the towers themselves would become one of the most successful developments and tourist attractions in the world.

The towers represent not only the resilience of a great nation, but also the "bigness" of New York, which is what attracted so many visitors to the former twins. Each floor plate covered one full acre. The current plan put forth by the LMDC is much less significant. Mr. Libeskind and Mr. Childs are trying to invent a new icon. I believe that icons evolve. The original towers were not very popular when they were first built, but they became one of the great symbols of this country over time. Elements of these buildings symbolize this country and always will. I cannot imagine replacing the magnificent dome over the Capitol Rotunda with some kind of twisted trapezoidal structure.

In Europe after the World War, many landmark structures were rebuilt. This is how a country and civilization develop a rich history. In my travels to Europe, there was a sense of longevity engendered by the presence of architecture that marked significant eras in each country's history. America will not have this kind of history if we do not protect and preserve our symbols of who we are and what we stand for. I am a great fan of change and technology, but I am also a student of history and a preservationist. To allow the image of these icons to vanish into the memories of this generation and never be seen by future generations is to erase a part of what makes us American.

new twin towers

• May 9, 2005 | 9:25 p.m. ET

Ground Zero debate: Freedom Tower Vs. Twin Tower (David Shuster)

You've followed the story right here on this blog for the last several weeks. On Tuesday night at 7 p.m. ET, the Freedom Tower v. Twin Tower debate will take center stage on "Hardball with Chris Matthews." The segment will start with a background piece that explains why, three and a half years after 9-11, New York is back to an important and passion filled choice over Ground Zero. Then, we will run some of the interviews that Chris Matthews has conducted with New Yorkers...

We have issued interview invitations to several high profile politicians and figures in this story. And will make time for all who choose to participate. But, regardless of who accepts/declines our invitations... this topic is going to be part of Tuesday night's show. Hardball airs at 7 p.m. and 11 p.m. ET eastern. Thanks in advance for watching...

In the meantime, your e-mails on the Freedom Tower/Twin Tower debate continue to pour in to this blog:.

Sue Cohen: "I lost my twin brother John G. Chipura, a NYC Firefighter, on September 11, 2001 -- the day "most of the world cried." He was only 39 and six weeks from getting married. My sisters Eileen Cella and Nancy Chipura as well as my brother FDNY Lieutenant Gerard Chipura miss him so much, and think about him every day... (Governor Pataki) how could you put up that (Freedom Tower) and say this is in memory of those lost that day? They would want the towers back...

Elaine Eames: "We lost our son-in-law on Feb. 17, 2005 in Tal Afar Iraq. His name was Sgt. Frank B. Hernandez, Jr. and he was 21 years old. He died in that damn war for this country and all the people who died in the towers and the Pentagon. After 9/11 he gave up a college scholarship to go to war, he was on his second tour.... The only thing that should go in the gaping heart of America is the Twin Towers. I would build them exactly as they were, just one floor higher. It's the only way to get our country back to where we need to be. That Freedom Tower is just plain ugly and does not represent anything except someone's would be refreshing to have the people's wishes heard for once."

Sandra Bach: "I don't live in New York, I live in Chicago, but I would expect that the Twin Towers hold the same meaning for New Yorkers as the Hancock Building or the Sears Tower holds for Chicagoans. I know I wouldn't want some memorial skeleton to be built where my beloved Hancock Bldg. or Sears Tower once proudly stood - I would want them back. I feel for the people of New York and hope that their governor will see the way to what's right. We need to rebuild and it needs to start now. If we wait, they have won and all those people who died in the towers and in the war we currently fight, have died for nothing."

Philip Katz: "If we rebuild smaller it would only give the terrorists who wrought this destruction something to hold up as a trophy, the ability to say "look what we've done, altered for the worse one of the most recognizable skylines in the world." It would be a constant reminder of our failure to take this opportunity to make a statement of our own. The American people and especially New Yorkers, must take this opportunity to tell the terrorists of the world that although we've suffered a loss, we will not stand aside in fear."

J.Y. Brattan: "I can’t believe that politicians aren’t jumping at the idea of rebuilding the towers!! With one quick change of thought Governor Pataki could ensure his next re-election, or even use the successful rebuilding of the towers in a run for president!! Mayor Bloomberg could become a hero to the people of New York! The first one to publicly declare and fight for the towers would become a local hero to many. In a world with limited interest in the politicians that govern them, doesn’t that sound like a political dream? Or am I missing something?"

Jack Purcell: "Every time I see a movie or pick up a picture of New York- there are the Twin Towers- a symbol of our nation, our pride, our engineering prowess. What has happened to this great nation? I say put the Twin Towers back up... This is America… the place where we’re supposed to be able to take a punch, and then get right back up and come back stronger. The Twin Towers should go right back up where they were. Let’s quit the crying and pick up a shovel."

Scott Schuckman: "We just can't let the terrorists succeed, and if we don't rebuild the towers that's exactly what they have accomplished, and those that perished on the fateful day will have died in vain. Just seeing the towers again in our lives would remind us daily of those we lost. I can not think of a greater way to honor someone than to never forget them."

Sam Ransom: "Twin Towers should be rebuilt. This would be the most fitting memorial to those that were lost on that tragic day, and a statement to the world of our resolve not to be intimidated by terrorists. I was born in Brooklyn, and was there when the original towers were built. The Pataki/Libeskind design should be tossed into the East River. To build that 'Freedom Tower' would be a colossal mistake."

• May 6, 2005 | 7:54 p.m. ET

A leader steps forward (David Shuster)

Regardless of your views of billionaire Donald Trump... the guy is a leader. And he has proven it once again. With New York politicians including Hillary Clinton, Chuck Schumer, Rudy Giuliani, and others afraid to state the obvious about Governor Pataki's problem plagued Freedom Tower, there was Trump today in the New York Post. "The design for the Freedom Tower is an egghead design... which has no practical application and which, frankly, didn't look very good." Trump went on to say that the Twin Towers should be rebuilt. "I think the World Trade Center should be rebuilt on the site, only stronger and a little bit taller, even if it's only one story taller."

Trump also provided a life raft to Larry Silverstein, the man in charge of developing the site. Trump called him a "wonderful professional who sort of got roped" by Pataki into the freedom tower plan. "I don't think this is something he (Silverstein) really wanted."

The impact of Donald Trump should not be underestimated. He has just pushed a gigantic boulder downhill. The only question now is whether New York's politicians get behind this or whether they get flattened. The fact is, Donald Trump has just made it clear to everybody that the Freedom Tower is dead and that some version of the Twin Towers is, sooner or later, coming back.

Late today, I did an on-camera interview with engineer Ken Gardner of He and architect Herb Belton have produced blue prints, site plans, and a 9-foot architectural model to help officials visualize the leading proposal to rebuild the Twin Towers. (We are preparing a segment for Monday's Hardball.) Gardner underscored that the plans are meant to be a basis for discussion... and that if David Childs' architectural firm (responsible for turning any proposal into reality) wants to add modern architectrual spires, glass, or anything else to bring the Twin Towers theme into the 21st century... "terrific." Gardner also underscored that he and Belton have spent their own money on this project and have no financial interest in the outcome.

Many of you have written to us at Hardblogger on all of this. Here are some of your e-mails:

Ray Brown: "In my opinion, the proposed Freedom Tower is perhaps the worst possible outcome... a half-building that's the perfect metaphor for the timid politicians and the uninspired bureaucratic process that made it possible; a Vichy-like capitulation to fear and
doubt. The fact that there's so little enthusiasm for the design should be a big clue in New York and Albany that it's the wrong thing to do."

JJ Walts: "I am very fortunate to be able to say my husband survived the September 11th attacks in New York. Living downtown, we were in the shadow of those massive landmarks; they were a part of our culture and identity as New Yorkers and Americans. The Twin Towers symbolized strength, hope, and prosperity. My children (ages 6 and 7 ) ask me when the "Twins" will be rebuilt. Even at that young age they understand the importance of bringing the Towers back to the "people"... just as they were, standing tall and proud, announcing to the world the intensity of our determination and the power of our spirit."

John Hitchcock: "Donald Trump spoke what 90% of the people feel. Rebuild the Twins back. It only makes sense. Let's get to work and get this accomplished."

George Signoriello, Jr.: "I grew up on Staten Island in New Brighton on a huge hill that overlooked New York Bay. My friends and I would sometimes stop and watch the construction of the Twin Towers and talk about them. I was a Flight Attendant for United Airlines based out of JFK with my flights departing and returning to LaGuardia Airport. There was nothing more breathtakingly beautiful than the sight of those two magnificently lit buildings as we would fly through above the bay and up the East River towards LaGuardia. The buildings need to be rebuilt... If we don't put back what was there, then the terrorists win."

Dan Carlisle: "Finally I am reading something about Ground Zero that makes my heart beat faster. I can only hope that it's not too late for an alternate design. I have always felt that the Towers should be redone."

Deb Spell: "I worked in tower 1 for five years... What's this freedom thing? Freedom is putting those towers back. We want our towers back. This would send a message to the world that we are strong and we will have our lives back. The governor needs a reality check."

Patricia Hale: "If they are not built back, the terrorists win. They will say they took us down, & we stayed down."

Thomas C. Teteak: "The Towers were, have always been and continue to be America's financial landmark. What better way to show to the world our national pride, resolve and determination... the only option is to bring the Twin Towers back."

Randy Butler: "Maybe Pataki will start listening to the 80% of Americans who want to rebuild the Twin Towers and tell the world that we will rise from the ashes, bigger and better."

Amy Raker: "Why should we change because of other countries? My whole theory is if you don't like us or how we do things, get out. No one made you come here and no one is making you stay. I say build the Twin Towers again and make Ground Zero the attraction it used to be."

Christopher Agombar (a Canadian): "By not rebuilding the original buildings, America is giving into the terrorists. They were beautiful structures and totally marked the skyline and identified it as being NY City. It would be as if Toronto was to loose our landmark CN tower and never have it replaced."

Bill Radigan: "The Towers should be re-built, stronger and taller than before. We all agree there would be no better way to show the American spirit and at the same time pay tribute to those who lost their lives that day. Anything short of this would be an empty hole in our hearts, spirit and the skyline... I cannot convey in words how strongly I feel about this issue."

Hartley Baker: "We need to be bold and face the challenge head on. The Twin Towers stood as an example of who we are; strength and resolve. I believe better engineering can be put into place in the event of another attack... We must not back down from these terrorists; we must build these towers just as tall and stand firm in defiance."

John Krasner: "I live in California but saw 9/11 unfold before my eyes early that fateful morning while watching this horrible event. Even though I don't live in NY., I still felt like I was losing a family member. We are a human family here in the United States of America. And when something tragic happens, we bleed together, cry together, and heal together. We are a strong nation... and as a strong nation... we should rebuild the Twin Towers."

Ed Parker: "I applaud the efforts of those who wish to see the Twin Towers rise again.. Let's honor those lost at the Trade Center as we honored those lost at the Pentagon. REBUILD!"

Irvin Haynes: "I spent 20 years in the military defending our freedoms that most take for granted. But every time I came home, and especially the first time I saw the N.Y. skyline from the ship I was on... I felt the 20 years was well spent... Rebuild those towers."

John Henderson: "The Twin Tower II proposal by Gardner & Belton is a beacon of strength and hope, not just for us, but for all nations who would stand in the face of the terrorists and shout that they will not be thwarted by fear."

Mathieu Chabert: "I very much hope the Twin Tower Plan gets to see the light of day. I'm a New Yorker who thought from the beginning those buildings should be rebuilt with today's technology and safety standards... Will common sense prevail in the end?"

hardball blogcast

• May 4, 2005 | 10:10 p.m. ET

Freedom Tower: N.Y. Gov. Pataki says "redesign" (David Shuster)

Two nights ago, shortly after writing in this space about the latest debacles surrounding the Freedom Tower, my inbox got jammed with e-mails from hundreds of you expressing your rage and indignation at New York Governor George Pataki, Mayor Michael Bloomberg, and Ground Zero developer Larry Silverstein. Nearly all of you wrote that the Freedom Tower is an embarassment and that America wants the Twin Towers back.

Jeff wrote that rebuilding them would be "a design for the ages, simultaneously telling future generations the story of 9-11 and of America's determination." Sean wrote, "It is shameful that the Twin Towers were not rebuilt immediately." Damir wrote that the newer, safer, stronger Twin Towers, "would illustrate such a powerful American spirit. Man, I get emotional just thinking about it." Maureen wrote about the absence of the Twin Towers and said, "my heart aches... for what the image of America has become."

Many of you asked what you could do to change things. Tonight, for a moment, it seemed part of the battle had been won. I received a call from a friend at another broadcast organization who said, "Did you hear the news? Governor Pataki just announced the Freedom Tower project has been suspended." It sounded like the entire Freedom Tower project was being shelved and that common sense and political smarts had finally entered Governor Pataki's mind.

I should have known better. When I finally reached a computer, the AP headline was, "New York Governor: Freedom Tower must be redesigned because of security concerns." The article went on to say that Pataki, Mayor Michael Bloomberg, and World Trade Center developer Larry Silverstein met at Pataki's Manhattan office late this afternoon. While details of their meeting were not released, the trio supposedly addressed a NYPD report last week which found that the location in the pit where the Freedom Tower is planned is too close to two major thoroughfares (and would therefore be vulnerable to truck bombs). The Pataki quote tonight was, "We believe that a building that meets the NYPD standards can be built consistent with architect Daniel Liebeskind's master site plan." In other words, Pataki and co. think the "problem" with the Freedom Tower can be solved by building the tower in a different part of Ground Zero.

Hello? Earth to Governor Pataki. You can't place the building in a different location. The entire area has to be redesigned. Remember, the site includes the footprints of the Twin Towers that were destroyed, a memorial area, and part of the original pit. In addition, there are "line of sight" issues with the Statue of Liberty. Everybody in New York knows this. Almost everybody also knows the reason most Americans hate the Freedom Tower is because it bears no resemblance to the Twin Towers. The issue is simple: If the Freedom Tower is on the table, the terrorists win. Why? Because holding on to Governor Pataki's Freedom Tower means America's enemies will have a gaping hole in New York to admire for at least another five years. Then, assuming the tower actually gets built in 5 years (want to bet?) America will unveil a "feeble tower." Why "feeble?" Because in this bizarre windmill/birdcage topped building... human beings will only be able to go as high as the 75th floor. That's right. The building may technically reach 1,776 feet... but that's counting the contraption on top (something that engineers say can't be built anyway). So, even in the end, the best view of the Statue of Liberty will not be from Governor Pataki's tower... it will be from one of a dozen other office or apartment buildings in Manhattan.

Some of you may be asking, why isn't Govenor Pataki willing to let go of this nonsense? I have my suspicions which I'll address in a future blog. In the meantime, here's a solution a lot of folks have already been working on... rebuild the Twin Towers. The group has a plan that is ready to go. Their blueprints, environmental impact statements, and etc. are more detailed than anything Governor Pataki's crew has produced. And as we wrote a few nights ago, the Gardner/Belton group even has a 9-foot architectural model for any skeptical reporters and city officials who bother to take a look.

Today, Governor Pataki, Mayor Bloomberg, and Developer Silverstein had a meeting. But it wasn't the kind of meeting Americans, and especially New Yorkers, want or deserve. The shame continues.

• May 3, 2005 | 10:40 p.m. ET

WTC: The shame continues (David Shuster)

The shame continues.

Last month, I spent some time working at MSNBC headquarters in New Jersey. My hotel room faced Manhattan. And once again, I was confronted with the frustrating and debilitating sight of the huge gaping hole in New York's downtown skyline. It's now been three and a half years since terrorists took down the Twin Towers. And the fact that "Al Qaeda's sky-line for New York" has not changed is an abomination.

But what's even more infuriating is the latest proof of incompetence, ineptitude, and mismanagement surrounding the "hallowed ground" where the Twin Towers once stood. Last week, city officials acknowledged that "security concerns" are going to push back completion of the proposed "Freedom Tower" until at least 2009. What are the security concerns? The tower, under the current plan, is supposed to be built on a part of the pit that is less than 20 meters from two major thoroughfares. I'm at a total loss as to why it would take anybody, including the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation (LMDC— the group in charge of reconstruction at Ground Zero) three years and a police report to discover that placing the tower next to busy streets might increase the vulnerability to a truck bomb. It's also baffling that anybody could look at the bizarre windmill/birdcage design for the top of the skyscraper and not be skeptical. But only recently, after developer Larry Silverstein publicly complained about the engineering hurdles, did the LMDC acknowledge the Freedom Tower design will have to be changed.

Hello??? The LMDC has been on this for three years!!! It took me ten minutes on the phone with one engineer to understand the physics that would make the Freedom Tower windmill impossible. (See my previous blogs listed below for other longstanding problems the LMDC has created, including one that harms the potential for fiber optics.)

The bottom line is that here we are, three and a half years after 9/11, and the LMDC is only now acknowledging it has no idea what the replacement for the Twin Towers will actually look like or how the "Freedom Tower" will be built. Talk about reclaiming our skyline...

Developer Larry Silverstein is nervous about where things stand. And he is now asking the city for tax increases and public financing to help cover the costs.

New York Senator Chuck Schumer is nervous. He recently spoke about the ongoing problems and used the phrase "twiddling our thumbs."

Goldman Sachs is beyond nervous. The Wall Street investment firm has already given up. The firm announce recently it is shelving plans for a new office that was supposed to be part of the project.

Kevin Rampe has also given up. The man appointed by New York Governor George Pataki to be president of the LMDC (and oversee the entire building effort) recently announced his resignation.

The only person who seems unconcerned is George Pataki. This week, the governor said, "All of this is moving forward well." Moving forward well? Give me a break. When Governor Pataki finishes last in the 2008 Iowa presidential caucuses, remind me to ask him directly for his definition of "moving forward well."

Let's acknowledge the obvious: The proposed replacement for the Twin Towers is an absolute disaster. The project symbolizes nervousness, defeatism, and outright ineptitude. That's the worst possible tribute to the victims of 9/11. And it must not be allowed to continue.

Ken Gardner

Many of you have suggested rebuilding the Twin Towers and reclaiming America's pride, determination, resilience, and resolve. I am happy to report to you that a group you've mentioned repeatedly in your e-mails—— now has a plan that is ready to go. The group's structural engineer Ken Gardner and architect Herbert Belton (who worked on the original drawings for the World Trade Center) have produced blue prints and building plans for newer, stronger, safer towers. The architectural plans are also far more detailed than anything put forward by the LMDC for the "Freedom Tower." And for any reporter or city official who is skeptical, Gardner and Belton have also built a detailed 9-foot "architectural model" to help you "visualize" the proposal.

This week, Gardner sent a letter to New York Governor Pataki, Mayor Michael Bloomberg, and developer Larry Silverstein. These officials were told about the plans and were invited to "simply take a look." Gardner is not asking the officials for feedback, a review, or any kind of commitment to the Twin Towers proposal... only that these officials, just to repeat, "take a look." Such a meeting may take three minutes... or with New York traffic, it may take thirty. But Governor Pataki, Mayor Bloomberg, and Mr. Silverstein... is that too much to ask? Let's be honest here: You owe New Yorkers a little time back. Three and a half years is an eternity... and America has put up with al Qaeda's vision for New York City (and tolerated the debacle known as the "Freedom Tower") more than long enough.

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May 12, 2005 -- DONALD Trump has built much of modern New York. But on the most im portant building project ever — the quest to repair New York's smashed heart and broken skyline — Trump's hands are tied.
Nevertheless, Trump is New York's only hope.

Gov. Pataki and his minions have refused to listen to New Yorkers and Americans, and do the right thing at Ground Zero. Gotham's last best chance to repair Downtown's legacy is if Pataki will listen to Trump.

Trump said it straight in last week's Post: "I think the World Trade Center should be rebuilt on the site, only stronger and a little bit taller." Since then, he's been deluged — not with criticism for daring to touch the new third rail of New York politics, but with near-unanimous support .

And desperate pleas for help.

"I've received literally hundreds of letters, saying rebuilding the towers is so right and what they're building is so wrong," Trump told me yesterday. "I don't think I've ever had more people comment on something . . . people are clamoring for this. Not one person has said the idea's wrong . . . if you did a referendum, it would be 98 percent."

But Pataki still seems hell-bent on getting his skeletal Freedom Tower up into the sky — so that those who look at Manhattan's skyline would see only an empty symbol of defeat.

New Yorkers have gotten a few weeks' reprieve from the Freedom Tower. It's now back to the drawing board again — partly because, as originally designed, it was structurally unsound. ("Buildings need floors," Trump said — "It's an important structural element.")

But — barring a miracle over the next few weeks — the latest version of the Freedom Tower will still be a 70-story office building topped by at least 600 feet of false angles and empty space.

So the building still won't offer any spectacular views of Manhattan — unless you're an adventurous pigeon. And that "skyline element" that's meant to symbolize New York's defeat over terrorists? It can't even hold its own physical weight.

"If we build this pile of rubbish, the terrorists will have won," Trump told me.

Not very diplomatic — but diplomacy isn't what's called for in an emergency. "The last thing the World Trade Center needs to look like after what happened is a skeleton," he said. "It's a bad signal to build a building that's not really a building."

But Trump, uncharacteristically, is chained. "I would love to do something," he told me. "But it's not my site." (And, every time he talks about this, Trump is sure to note that he's good friends with WTC leaseholder Larry Silverstein — and that the Freedom Tower wasn't Silverstein's idea.)

It's a shame — and Pataki's refusal to accept Trump's advice on behalf of the New Yorkers who would gratefully accept it is shameful. Trump has real ideas for the new World Trade Center — and the experience to execute them.

First off, Trump isn't embarrassed to say he misses the Twin Towers — unlike the other elites who make decisions in this town. "There is no more practical design than the World Trade Center," Trump said. "I was never a great fan of the World Trade Center until it came down," he admits, "but I and everyone else miss it. It was truly beautiful."

One of the obstacles to building new Twin Towers has always been the perception of safety. But, as Trump notes, we're not rebuilding the same towers: We're building them stronger.

For example: A new WTC can use "space-age" concrete rather than steel for added structural support. Structural support also means 21st- century fire-prevention and -suppression techniques.

Trump certainly hasn't abandoned building real skyscrapers at his sites because he's afraid people won't work in them — he's now building a 92-story tower in Chicago. The Donald (or any developer willing and able to do the right thing) could build new Twin Towers right — and Trump would feel comfortable sending a family member to work there.

Is it only Pataki who refuses to build big now?

Trump has a plea for Gov. Pataki — really a plea from all the New Yorkers who can't speak directly to the governor: "I would say to Gov. Pataki, you're a friend of mine . . . and I think the greatest thing you can do now is to reincarnate the World Trade Center in a stronger and slightly taller form. I think it would be the most popular thing you've done, and your greatest achievement."

Some people — actually, just Daniel Libeskind — have accused Trump of speaking out because he wants his name on the towers.

Nonsense — Trump has actually risked much by speaking out. He has to deal with the governor, the mayor and fellow developers to get anything done in this town — but he obviously believes that New Yorkers' skyline is important enough to eclipse those concerns. "I have my name on enough buildings," he said, "but I don't want to see the skyline destroyed."

MSNBC has reported that Pataki has told Ground Zero planners that they must start building something — anything — soon, just to get the critics off his back. But what Pataki doesn't understand is this: New Yorkers aren't furious just because the Freedom Tower is late. They are furious because the Freedom Tower is horrible.

And they're furious that nobody but Trump — not Mayor Bloomberg, not Hillary Clinton, not Chuck Schumer and on and on — is brave enough to say the obvious: The emperor has no clothes.

And they won't forgive Pataki if he forsakes the Twin Towers to force his tower on their skyline.

"People will be happy to wait," Trump said. But time is running out. "When these buildings get built, we've won. When those buildings get built, the terrorists have won."
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