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King of Bernicia
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1,246 Posts
The "Journal has been told"...

By whom?

Ah yes, Labour MPs and councillors...

Hardly an unbiased source. And hardly in touch with real spending plans.


As I said lets wait for the real, OFFICIAL details to emerge and not just cheap shots and speculations from the opposition.
Indeed. If every time the Journal was 'told' something it was true....we'd be living in the Jetsons.
 

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The Northumbrian
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2,116 Posts
No other projects in the N.East either which is a big let down. Would've hoped for A1 improvements, or the new Sunderland bridge at least.
So the North East might get the already planned Tyne and Wear Metro improvements brought foward a bit ? Thats it !
Gideon Osbourne and "call me Dave" Cameron do realise that this region now has the highest unemployment rate in the UK don't they ?
Or is it closer to the truth to suggest that the just don't give a toss about the forgotten region.
 

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Part Time Contributor
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43,331 Posts
South Gosforth Station

Spotted this Application on the Newcastle Council's Planning Portal @ http://publicaccess.newcastle.gov.u...tch&keyVal=LUI773BSAP000&caseType=Application

2011/1724/01/DET | Demolition of existing concourse building, ramps and staircases. Construction of new concourse building, ramps and staircases and landscaping to the east of the concourse. General recladding of platform canopy with associated lighting and landscaping to Platform 1 and demolition of existing concourse building. Construction of new concourse building and general recladding of platform canopy and associated lighting and landscaping to platform 2 and refurbishment of the existing passenger footbridge | Nexus South Gosforth Metro Station Station Road South Gosforth Newcastle upon Tyne

As it was in 1955, courtesy of the Newcastle Libraries Archive Collection @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/newcastlelibraries/4080748425/

 

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Letting off the happiness
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5,855 Posts
Anyone have any images of how it would look?

Again IMO it's money being wasted on something that doesn't need changing. Why rebuild the stations just because they've gone out of fashion? They're of their time and I doubt one single person is put off travelling because of how the stations look as they are clean and safe and that's all that 'matters.
 

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Registered
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573 Posts
Totally agree. There is also some architectural/historic merit in some of the Metro stations. Maybe not South Gossy but the changes to much of Haymarket really are horrible.

Underground it looks fine - for a London Tube station. They have taken the light welcoming Tyneside trademark square tunnel look and swapped it for dark wannabe generic undergroudn architecture. It looks fine, but it is not the Metro.

That I can live with, but what really annoys me is the concourse. Haymarket was the first Metro station I saw as a kid. Light airy and hi-tech in a 1970s way. That interior was a landmark in North East transport heritage, as important (in my view) as Central Sataion, the High Level Bridge, and Tynemouth station. Change for the sake of change. If what they were replacing had been shabby and delipidated then there may have been an argument for it. Haymarket is now a narrow corridored dark hole in the ground. I guess Monument is the next place to be buggered up.
 

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Anyone have any images of how it would look?

Again IMO it's money being wasted on something that doesn't need changing. Why rebuild the stations just because they've gone out of fashion? They're of their time and I doubt one single person is put off travelling because of how the stations look as they are clean and safe and that's all that 'matters.
Agreed. North Shields has been razed to the ground and is being rebuilt from scratch (including the platforms, rendering the station unusable for days and weeks on end ffs). Why? How can this possibly increase usership and revenue?

Lets not forget he whole station area was renovated in the mid-nineties anyway. A tacit admission the previous renovation was a complete botch job?
 

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Registered
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187 Posts
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Not much 'detail' on this as yet. In my view it COULD just be a re-statement of what has already been approved and agreed . . .Cita:Multi-billion pound push on UK Infrastructure Projects
BBC Newcastle, Tyne Website, Monday 28th November 2011


A multi-billion pound investment programme aimed at getting Britain's economy moving is set to be announced. Most of the money is expected to come from the big British pension funds, as well as Chinese investment.

However, £5bn will be paid for by further cuts in the present spending round.

Various road schemes around Britain and rail lines in Newcastle and between Manchester and Leeds are thought to be among 40 projects earmarked for help. It comes ahead of Tuesday's autumn statement in which Chancellor George Osborne will outline spending plans.

The government says the initiative, called the National Infrastructure Plan, would see it and private investors support both social and economic schemes over the coming decade.

The 40 highlighted projects for support from the plan include the Metro system in Tyne and Wear, in the North East of England. The government wants to "accelerate the development" of the Tyne and wear Metro.

BBC business editor Robert Peston said the move to aid investment in major infrastructure projects was "important for improving the productive potential of the British economy, making it more competitive".


Read More - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15914145
In the light of recent decisions should we offer some developement project (mine for example http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=402998&page=88)?
 

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Part Time Contributor
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43,331 Posts
A story from last night - I was meeting up with some mates for a few beers in Monkseaton last night - some lovely Northumbria Blonde it was called, tang of grapefruit, anyway they had travelled on the Metro from Palmersville.

Low and behold the two new digital ticket machines were out of order. Someone at the station used the intercom to ask what they should do and were advised to get the train to their destination and then buy a ticket there. Hmmm, I wonder how may people would actually do that?
 

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Between Manors and Byker
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569 Posts
Low and behold the two new digital ticket machines were out of order. Someone at the station used the intercom to ask what they should do and were advised to get the train to their destination and then buy a ticket there. Hmmm, I wonder how may people would actually do that?
Not many I bet. But there have been instances elsewhere in the UK where people have been stopped who didn't have a valid ticket, didn't buy one at the destination station and then were caught and fined in sting operations.
 

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Part Time Contributor
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Not many I bet. But there have been instances elsewhere in the UK where people have been stopped who didn't have a valid ticket, didn't buy one at the destination station and then were caught and fined in sting operations.
Hmm, that sounds illegal on the basis of entrapment, i.e. encouragement by removing the means of purchasing a ticket at the source and in any case seems to be a pointless exercise :bash:
 

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Between Manors and Byker
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569 Posts
Hmm, that sounds illegal on the basis of entrapment, i.e. encouragement by removing the means of purchasing a ticket at the source and in any case seems to be a pointless exercise :bash:
Tactic has been used before in penalty fare areas - plus from what I've read it is perfectly legal if still on railway land.
 

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Moderator
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13,091 Posts
Its a grey area, especially if we are dealing with a penalty ticket.

Usually you can successfully defend if you can show that you were entrapped - that you would not have committed the act but for the entrapment. However if the entrapment effectively facilitated something you were already minded to do then you re on thin ice.

In other words:
  • If you probably were not going to buy one anyway then entrapement would not be a defence
  • If the machine was kaput, you got on the train and were stopped before the next station you'd have a defence
  • If the machine was kaput, you got on the train got off and walked past a functioning machine on exit and were then stopped - you ve got intent.

However I suspect a court would take a slightly dim view if the operator conspired to switch machines off and parked inspectors at the next station in anticipation....
 

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Between Manors and Byker
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569 Posts
Its a grey area, especially if we are dealing with a penalty ticket.

Usually you can successfully defend if you can show that you were entrapped - that you would not have committed the act but for the entrapment. However if the entrapment effectively facilitated something you were already minded to do then you re on thin ice.


In other words:
  • If you probably were not going to buy one anyway then entrapement would not be a defence
  • If the machine was kaput, you got on the train and were stopped before the next station you'd have a defence
  • If the machine was kaput, you got on the train got off and walked past a functioning machine on exit and were then stopped - you ve got intent.
However I suspect a court would take a slightly dim view if the operator conspired to switch machines off and parked inspectors at the next station in anticipation....
It depends, and it has been done in some cases. I doubt a TOC would deliberately take ticket machines out of service but there have been instances where a ticket machine has failed, staff have been advised at stations along the line of this, and where people have walked past the ticket office at the other end they have been stopped and without having a ticket. All ticket offices can sell tickets from any station to any other station on the network.

As for the Metro, it should say on the ticket machine info what to do if a machine is out of service. Control has a log of each time the info point is used, so the roving inspectors can check to see if the story is correct.

Doesn't happen very often as ticket machines are normally in pairs, and the machines themselves used to have a link back to Control to see if they were working correctly, had enough change and enough spare ticket stock.
 

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Moderator
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It depends, and it has been done in some cases. I doubt a TOC would deliberately take ticket machines out of service but there have been instances where a ticket machine has failed, staff have been advised at stations along the line of this, and where people have walked past the ticket office at the other end they have been stopped and without having a ticket. All ticket offices can sell tickets from any station to any other station on the network.

As for the Metro, it should say on the ticket machine info what to do if a machine is out of service. Control has a log of each time the info point is used, so the roving inspectors can check to see if the story is correct.

Doesn't happen very often as ticket machines are normally in pairs, and the machines themselves used to have a link back to Control to see if they were working correctly, had enough change and enough spare ticket stock.
Agree with you. If the machine is off and you walk past a machine and you knew [or ought to have known] that you could buy one - you re probably stuffed. I just wanted to flag up that if a TOC essentially conspired to cause this situation [by say turning the machines off] they might have problems.

FWIW Metro would probably do well to have more robust mechanisms for fare dodgers. Mrs NP and I have lived in a city centre apartment for about 10 yrs. Couple of times a year we will receive a demand for an unpaid penalty for the metro issued to people who certainly have never lived here for the last 10 yrs [and we've no record of being there before that].

You'd think that there would be a mechanism to check addresses - otherwise the temptation must be to identify yourself as D Duck and M Mouse of No1 Grey Street.
 

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Between Manors and Byker
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569 Posts
Agree with you. If the machine is off and you walk past a machine and you knew [or ought to have known] that you could buy one - you re probably stuffed. I just wanted to flag up that if a TOC essentially conspired to cause this situation [by say turning the machines off] they might have problems.

FWIW Metro would probably do well to have more robust mechanisms for fare dodgers. Mrs NP and I have lived in a city centre apartment for about 10 yrs. Couple of times a year we will receive a demand for an unpaid penalty for the metro issued to people who certainly have never lived here for the last 10 yrs [and we've no record of being there before that].

You'd think that there would be a mechanism to check addresses - otherwise the temptation must be to identify yourself as D Duck and M Mouse of No1 Grey Street.
Vast majority of the dodgers are well known to the inspectors - was once at South Gosforth Control collecting some documents and there was a girl there paying three fines at once - she'd made the same trip three days in a row and got caught three times.

Staff who are authorised to give fines can check addresses but there will be a few who give the name of a friend/relative and their address.

Better way would be to increase the fine to something like £500 - that would be a better deterrent. When you think a 3z day saver costs £4, you only need to make 5 return journeys to cover the cost of the current fine.
 
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