Could I suggest that all the ramblings about high speed trains go into a (new?) high speed trains thread, rather than clogging up this more general thread about British railways?
UNITED KINGDOM | Railways
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That's classic! They even need 2 more poles to support the extra long sign~ :lol:![]()
It's great, I know! 
Anyway - electrification of the Great Western Mainline to Wales and the Midlands Mainline is on the cards.
A compelling case for the first big electrification programme for 20 years will be presented on Friday by the company that runs Britain’s railways – a move that would cut rail costs and lead to faster, more reliable and cleaner journeys.
The Network Rail consultation will say electrification of much of the Great Western route from London to western England and Wales and of the Midland main line from London to Sheffield makes most sense. Neither project would need any government grant or subsidy.
Geoff Hoon, transport secretary, has welcomed the report, calling it a “valuable step”. The Department for Transport is due to decide later this year on a resumption of rail electrification.
“The government is committed to electrification because of the benefits it brings to rail passengers, through more reliable and comfortable electric trains and a reduction in the country’s carbon emissions and the cost of running the railway,” Mr Hoon said.
He is likely to come under pressure from train operators to decide fast in order to lift uncertainty over whether new electric or diesel trains should be ordered for routes.
The last big electrification project was on the London-Edinburgh east coast main line, authorised in 1984 and completed in 1991. Since privatisation in the mid-1990s, only further small sections of line have been electrified, usually to provide extra routes for electric trains round engineering work. Only 40 per cent of the network is electrified, a far lower proportion than in countries such as Germany and France.
Electric trains cost 33 per cent less per mile to maintain than diesel trains, the document says. They cost 45 per cent less in fuel, 18 per cent less to lease and produce less damage to track. Passengers should also enjoy shorter journeys thanks to electric trains’ superior acceleration.
While emissions vary between train types, carbon dioxide emissions per mile from electric trains can be less than half those for comparable diesels.
The cost of putting up electric wires on the Midland main line from Bedford to Nottingham and Sheffield, and on the Great Western route from Maidenhead to Bristol and Swansea is likely to be relatively low. The Midland route cost would probably be about £100m and the Great Western about £120m.
However, neither figure includes the cost of new electric trains, any new signalling required or alterations to bridges and tunnels. There are 90 structures on the Midland main line that would require alterations, while on the Great Western main line the main obstacle is the four-and-a-half-mile long Severn tunnel, which leaks heavily.
The east coast main line project cost £306m in 1984 prices, including new trains and signalling, although many observers believe savings on the overhead line equipment in that project have contributed to its unreliability since.
Apart from the Midland and Great Western routes, the document identifies some projects – including electrification of much of the inter-city cross-country network – whose benefits outweigh costs to the government by five or more times.
A government subsidy would be required, however, because many of the benefits would be non-financial ones such as a cleaner environment.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/20928314-4...44feabdc0.html
The best map I have found of the British rail network (includes the separate Irish network too) is this:
http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/map.php?file=maps/british-isles/british-isles.gif
It's a great map actually, showing gauges, type of electrification, etc.
Anyway - electrification of the Great Western Mainline to Wales and the Midlands Mainline is on the cards.
A compelling case for the first big electrification programme for 20 years will be presented on Friday by the company that runs Britain’s railways – a move that would cut rail costs and lead to faster, more reliable and cleaner journeys.
The Network Rail consultation will say electrification of much of the Great Western route from London to western England and Wales and of the Midland main line from London to Sheffield makes most sense. Neither project would need any government grant or subsidy.
Geoff Hoon, transport secretary, has welcomed the report, calling it a “valuable step”. The Department for Transport is due to decide later this year on a resumption of rail electrification.
“The government is committed to electrification because of the benefits it brings to rail passengers, through more reliable and comfortable electric trains and a reduction in the country’s carbon emissions and the cost of running the railway,” Mr Hoon said.
He is likely to come under pressure from train operators to decide fast in order to lift uncertainty over whether new electric or diesel trains should be ordered for routes.
The last big electrification project was on the London-Edinburgh east coast main line, authorised in 1984 and completed in 1991. Since privatisation in the mid-1990s, only further small sections of line have been electrified, usually to provide extra routes for electric trains round engineering work. Only 40 per cent of the network is electrified, a far lower proportion than in countries such as Germany and France.
Electric trains cost 33 per cent less per mile to maintain than diesel trains, the document says. They cost 45 per cent less in fuel, 18 per cent less to lease and produce less damage to track. Passengers should also enjoy shorter journeys thanks to electric trains’ superior acceleration.
While emissions vary between train types, carbon dioxide emissions per mile from electric trains can be less than half those for comparable diesels.
The cost of putting up electric wires on the Midland main line from Bedford to Nottingham and Sheffield, and on the Great Western route from Maidenhead to Bristol and Swansea is likely to be relatively low. The Midland route cost would probably be about £100m and the Great Western about £120m.
However, neither figure includes the cost of new electric trains, any new signalling required or alterations to bridges and tunnels. There are 90 structures on the Midland main line that would require alterations, while on the Great Western main line the main obstacle is the four-and-a-half-mile long Severn tunnel, which leaks heavily.
The east coast main line project cost £306m in 1984 prices, including new trains and signalling, although many observers believe savings on the overhead line equipment in that project have contributed to its unreliability since.
Apart from the Midland and Great Western routes, the document identifies some projects – including electrification of much of the inter-city cross-country network – whose benefits outweigh costs to the government by five or more times.
A government subsidy would be required, however, because many of the benefits would be non-financial ones such as a cleaner environment.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/20928314-4...44feabdc0.html
The best map I have found of the British rail network (includes the separate Irish network too) is this:
http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/map.php?file=maps/british-isles/british-isles.gif
It's a great map actually, showing gauges, type of electrification, etc.
Map showing the proposed electrification of parts of the Great Western and Midland Mainlines in England & Wales:
![]()
The short purple lines are sections of electrification in-fill on other lines. Further electrification proposals exist for Scotland.
The short purple lines are sections of electrification in-fill on other lines. Further electrification proposals exist for Scotland.
My knowledge about what ??? about the british rails ??? Or my questioning/doubting other peoples knowledge about what they are claiming as "being the truth"
What is offtopic when the topic is British Railways - Pics, Info, News, Views and one is merely discussing about news , projects and views of precisely the way things are or should,could,will be in BR ??? :dunno:
And about your last quote about my knowledge ... look ... this is one of your "new and innovative" high teck EMU's ...
then again ... you can be the one completely wrong since that picture is of year ... 1938 ???
I'm completely astounished by your innocent astounishment about the simplicity and small cost of such major electrifications.
Wait ... weren't you just claiming:
why don't YOU leave instead ??
If your only contribution to this topic is to flamebait in my general direction you migh as well save one post count.
And no ... I don't even lose one breath to think why people stupidly assume that offensive position just to prove that I'm wrong ... specially when they are claiming pure and utter crap suck as TGV-fanboyism and other such nonsense.
And you seem to be an enormous specialist in flamebaiting since you manage to be completelly offtopic in ALL , EACH AND EVERY post you made directed at me.
I repeat myself here ... Thread: British Railways - Pics, Info, News, Views
Not flamebaiting ... go back to your beloved DLM where your recurrent kind of crappy remarks belong anyway.
hno:Then again ... how nice to see that they intend to electrify the GWR and the MML.
disrupting the peace ??? as in being beaten up to pulp and crying for help disrupts the peace of those using the baseball bats with the nails kind of piece ???
a) I don't recall ever claiming that TGV was a good and bla bla bla or that shinkansen was a bad thingie or whatever
b) you even claim that you hate alsthom so the TGV sucks and that HS2 should be 3,4m wide so as to accomodate shinkansen ... and other such cunning remarks.
^^ and what precisely does this have with your (and some others) recurrent flame-baiting in my general direction ??? :bash:
So I should be "suspended by moderators FOREVER!" ... and that for what ??? for not putting up with your crappy provocations ???hno:
Grow up will you ???
And by the way ... your belloved TGV beat the record wich belonged to this little piece of electric unit since 1903:
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And I only came in here thinking that I would be drooling over Mancester Planner's lovely old steam pictures ... and maiby add some of my own ... but instead I'm faced with kids rants.hno:
a) I don't recall ever claiming that TGV was a good and bla bla bla or that shinkansen was a bad thingie or whatever
b) you even claim that you hate alsthom so the TGV sucks and that HS2 should be 3,4m wide so as to accomodate shinkansen ... and other such cunning remarks.
^^ and what precisely does this have with your (and some others) recurrent flame-baiting in my general direction ??? :bash:
So I should be "suspended by moderators FOREVER!" ... and that for what ??? for not putting up with your crappy provocations ???
hno:Grow up will you ???
And by the way ... your belloved TGV beat the record wich belonged to this little piece of electric unit since 1903:
And I only came in here thinking that I would be drooling over Mancester Planner's lovely old steam pictures ... and maiby add some of my own ... but instead I'm faced with kids rants.
hno:
EACH AQND EVERY TIME THAT I ever Talked about either TGV and/or shinkansen was QUOTING what someone had previously posted about one or the other or even both.
So Stuffit about your wrongly assumed mighty sorry views on what not and something else.
The ETR200 is the sole and first predecessor of the current Virgin 390 pendolino ... coupled with the ATP and some other projects ... that says much about it being or not on topic here. :bash:
And if people recurrently assume the kind of attacking position that you (and some others here) usually use (and abuse) then theres no stopping the corrective responses.
No ... I just posted a picture of an old train wich usually grabbed the same speeds that the post-BR private companies managed to CAP/UNDERMINE it's 70 year younger grand-grand-son ...
all other implications about it being of a completely different and ancient technological era are solely on your side ... so if someone should go back to school it's you and not me ... start with psychology.
hno:About any technological or construction downsizing/underpriced situation that migh have ocurred in the meantime since early eighties in the UK .. that is precisely why the rest of the world is astonished to see where you guys are(were?) heading in railway terms in the past 2 decades ... straight down.
hno:I just give you a couple of numbers to compare:
Over here (portugal) we reconstructed some 2000km of railways and even installed EBICAB700 all over the majority of the network , the main lines are (almost completely) upgraded to 220km/h and fully electrified ... the next phase is to go the 300/350 km/h HSR way... the 600km basic network is suposed to cost 10/15M€ ... or roughly the same cost as the 100km HS1.
And it is plausible that it will really cost that amount to electrify ... same as with the 80's "top-and-tailing" TGV (due to the huge transformers needed) of the french your electrification techniques were very basic back then ... today the market has pretty cheap solutions to suplly so it's way cheaper.
hno:
4
Two thirds of this thread is sotavento rambling and occasionally ranting about stuff few people care about and which shouldn't be clogging up what is an informative (and should also be an enjoyable) thread on British railways ("Pics, Info, News, Views" as it says in the thread title). In-depth ramblings about HSR should go somewhere else. Please.
Anyway, sotavento, you say you enjoyed the photos of steam trains running here in Great Britain. Fine - here are some more:
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I think it's great having steam running on the mainlines!
Anyway, sotavento, you say you enjoyed the photos of steam trains running here in Great Britain. Fine - here are some more:
I think it's great having steam running on the mainlines!
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