Urban life for kids

There are other nations where kids are not driven everywhere by their parents and protected in little cotton wool bundles. The Anglo-Saxon world is very, very guilty of doing this though. The UK, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand all seem to have this fear culture surrounding children and their activities.

I don't see what the big deal is. "Urban life" is for everyone living within that urban area, kids included. Them being excluded is either a problem on the part of the parents (over-protectionism) or a problem with the surrounding environment (unsafe). Which unfortunately, is largely the case in much of the world. I'm certainly quite thankful my parents gave me enough independence as a child and could go to school myself, and explore the neighbourhood and even the city from a relatively young age, and was sent on errands, etc.

Svartmetall said:

The Anglo-Saxon world...UK, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand

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Only one of these countries could be described as "Anglo-Saxon" (UK). It is an ethnic group, not a language.

monkeyronin said:

Only one of these countries could be described as "Anglo-Saxon" (UK). It is an ethnic group, not a language.

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So Canadians, Australians, Americans and Kiwis have no relation to Great Britain at all? :|

Besides, I quote:

That horribly inaccurate source of Wikipedia said:

Outside Anglophone countries, both in Europe and in the rest of the world, the term "Anglo-Saxon" and its direct translations are used to refer to the Anglophone peoples and societies of Britain, the United States, and other countries such as Australia, Canada and New Zealand. The term can be used in a variety of contexts, often to identify the English-speaking world's distinctive language, culture, technology, wealth, markets, economy, and legal systems. Local variations include the French "Anglo-Saxon" and the Spanish "anglosajón".

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Svartmetall said:

So Canadians, Australians, Americans and Kiwis have no relation to Great Britain at all? :|

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How does their relation make them "Anglo-Saxon"? Is India also an Anglo-Saxon country?

Besides, I quote:

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Anglophone =/= Anglo-Saxon.

monkeyronin said:

How does their relation make them "Anglo-Saxon"? Is India also an Anglo-Saxon country?

Anglophone =/= Anglo-Saxon.

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Obviously you didn't read what was said in that quote properly. Are you just so desperate to attempt to prove someone wrong that you have lost the ability to read? Rightly or wrongly, Anglo-Saxon can be used to refer to the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

Anyway, instead of arguing about semantics, how about staying on topic and discussing the issue at hand.

Svartmetall said:

Obviously you didn't read what was said in that quote properly. Are you just so desperate to attempt to prove someone wrong that you have lost the ability to read? Rightly or wrongly, Anglo-Saxon can be used to refer to the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

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Sure, it can be used incorrectly to describe them, just as this can incorrectly be described as pink:



Doesn't actually make it the case.

monkeyronin said:

Sure, it can be used incorrectly to describe them, just as this can incorrectly be described as pink:

Doesn't actually make it the case.

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Right, and the shared culture and values that exist between the anglophone nations of course have no roots in Anglo-Saxon culture, right?

The very fact that Anglo-Saxon is used to refer to our shared cultures in academia (for example in this article here about the Socio-Cultural Environment for Entrepreneurship) shows that perhaps it is you, and not me, who doesn't understand the term Anglo-Saxon.

I prefer the term "Anglosphere". Anglo-Saxon seems archaic to me and sounds pejorative since it's commonly used in a sneering term by other Europeans against the Brits somewhat.

Anyway, back to subject, yes there are plenty of countries in the world where parents don't have to worry about their children going outside.

However, Japan is really safe from what I hear.

Svartmetall said:

Right, and the shared culture and values that exist between the anglophone nations of course have no roots in Anglo-Saxon culture, right?

The very fact that Anglo-Saxon is used to refer to our shared cultures in academia (for example in this article here about the Socio-Cultural Environment for Entrepreneurship) shows that perhaps it is you, and not me, who doesn't understand the term Anglo-Saxon.

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Just because some people in academia use a term doesn't mean we 'plebeians' must accept it as some kind of ultimate truth. While no one would disagree that Canada has certain Anglo-Saxon roots, it is debatable whether you can still call it so. Many Canadians would disagree to their country being labeled as essentially 'Anglo-Saxon'.

Xusein said:

Anyway, back to subject, yes there are plenty of countries in the world where parents don't have to worry about their children going outside.

However, Japan is really safe from what I hear.

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I think the article over-generalises and that the Australian writer has his own agenda. I mean, all of it is based on personal opinion with very little else to make a strong case.

Also, my personal experience is the opposite. My parents allowed me to walk outside by myself in both big-city Toronto and Brisbane with no problems. Many of my friends can attest to the same...

CANAUS said:

Just because some people in academia use a term doesn't mean we 'plebeians' must accept it as some kind of ultimate truth. While no one would disagree that Canada has certain Anglo-Saxon roots, it is debatable whether you can still call it so. Many Canadians would disagree to their country being labeled as essentially 'Anglo-Saxon'.

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It's more that those in academia are quite likely to use a "correct" term otherwise they'll be bombarded with letters from fellow academics who love to point out that they might be wrong.

As for your comment about Canada being an "Anglo-Saxon" nation, I doubt many Brits in the street would consider the UK "Anglo-Saxon" given the ethnic diversity present in the UK these days, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have Anglo-Saxon roots that have strongly influenced the culture, laws, literature and history of that country. But I digress.

I only continued this line of discussion because of your fellow Canadian making such a song and dance about the use of a term which, in my mind (as well as others) was perfectly acceptable to use in a bid to score "one-up" on me.

Svartmetall said:

There are other nations where kids are not driven everywhere by their parents and protected in little cotton wool bundles. The Anglo-Saxon world is very, very guilty of doing this though. The UK, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand all seem to have this fear culture surrounding children and their activities.

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In Vienna public transport and the streets are full with pupils during the week. Its surprising that in the English speaking world people would not allow their children such a nice and important step of early emancipation. I think its an important thing to learn for children to navigate on their own and also to come home when they are supposed to on their own.

Slartibartfas said:

In Vienna public transport and the streets are full with pupils during the week. Its surprising that in the English speaking world people would not allow their children such a nice and important step of early emancipation. I think its an important thing to learn for children to navigate on their own and also to come home when they are supposed to on their own.

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I agree with you 100%. I was quite lucky in as much as I was expected to walk home from school at an early age. From the age of middle school onwards I had to take public transport home on my own - good for survival skills indeed!

CANAUS said:

Also, my personal experience is the opposite. My parents allowed me to walk outside by myself in both big-city Toronto and Brisbane with no problems. Many of my friends can attest to the same...

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This is generally true for us inner-city kids throughout the "Anglosphere", however, the problem is that we're simply outnumbered by suburbanites to such a large extent. Thus leading me to believe the overbearing parent is largely a learned behavior brought about primarily through urban design, rather than a cultural trait of English-speaking countries.

Svartmetall said:

As for your comment about Canada being an "Anglo-Saxon" nation, I doubt many Brits in the street would consider the UK "Anglo-Saxon" given the ethnic diversity present in the UK these days, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have Anglo-Saxon roots that have strongly influenced the culture, laws, literature and history of that country. But I digress.

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Its not merely a question of ethnic diversity (and even if it were, Anglo-Saxons constitute the majority of the UK's population, which is not the case in the other 4 countries), but that in the case of Canada at least, it has much more than "Anglo-Saxon roots" - it was neither initially settled nor colonized by Britain, merely taken possession of at a later time by them. Which of course has influenced its laws, culture, etc. but again, we could say the same of India, which I certainly wouldn't call an Anglo-Saxon nation.

I only continued this line of discussion because of your fellow Canadian making such a song and dance about the use of a term which, in my mind (as well as others) was perfectly acceptable to use in a bid to score "one-up" on me.

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No, its not about you, actually, but rather an inaccurate (and quite chauvinistic and patriarchal) description of 4 countries. Don't know what they teach you in the UK, but its not the only country or people that has played a role in the history and formation of these 4 (particularly Canada & the US).

monkeyronin said:

No, its not about you, actually, but rather an inaccurate (and quite chauvinistic and patriarchal) description of 4 countries. Don't know what they teach you in the UK, but its not the only country or people that has played a role in the history and formation of these 4 (particularly Canada & the US).

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Chauvinism? Since when is referring to something as "Anglo-Saxon" chauvinistic? It reflects no national pride to state that your culture, laws and what not have been greatly influenced by Anglo-Saxon values. It isn't just my blind assertion that this is the case either, academics can draw far more parallels between your culture (both in the US and Canada) and the British culture than they can between your cultures and other European or indigenous cultures. I see little of First Nation or American Indian culture present in the fundamentals of your society.

If you also understood NZ and Australian history you'd know that there were indigenous people present here too. In NZ, the Maoris have had a profound influence on society here, however, that doesn't mean that our society isn't also founded on Anglo-Saxon values primarily evident in laws, the Parliamentary system and what not. To deny this is utter tripe.

Anyway, if you want to continue this discussion, PM me and I'm more than happy to discuss this with you, however, we're currently polluting this thread and dragging it off-topic so we should take this elsewhere.

I've always decribed my self as being Anglo-Saxon for the type of caucasian I am and geonelogy. There's also a slight mix of mediterranian.

For example if a person says somthing like 'he's not Australian, he's Indian'.

I'd probably say 'yeah I'm actually anglo-saxon Australian, he can be Australian too but his family background probably comes from the sub-continent'.

A work mate who once discussed a particular place to celebrate a national celebration claimed there were only Australians - showing a picuture of a bunch of flag waving types. Knowing she meant of course only people that are white, I felt like saying,

'Yeah you mean the place was full of Anglo-Saxons'?

Although! The term Anglo-Saxon here in Australia seems to be more replaced with Anglo-Celtic. I do wonder if this was raised by the 'don't like English people prefer to have any forein family ties with either Scots, Welsh and Irish' people.

Slartibartfas said:

In Vienna public transport and the streets are full with pupils during the week. Its surprising that in the English speaking world people would not allow their children such a nice and important step of early emancipation. I think its an important thing to learn for children to navigate on their own and also to come home when they are supposed to on their own.

Click to expand...

Svartmetall said:

I agree with you 100%. I was quite lucky in as much as I was expected to walk home from school at an early age. From the age of middle school onwards I had to take public transport home on my own - good for survival skills indeed!

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Yes, walking home from school and relying on public transport from a young age was great. Gives you self confidence and a feeling of independance. Having to rely on your parents to drop you off everywhere restricts your freedom. Having said that, its not like public transport gave me ultimate freedom, growing up in Auckland.

Yet another disadvantage of automobile based transport is that it put the young, the old, and the disabled at a disadvantage. Not to mention the poor, whose ability to pay for maintaining cars may be limited.

Wrapping your kids in cotton wool can't be good for helping them become more mature.