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www.urbangreeks.com






Every millimetre of hill turned into concrete





Ermoupoli's architecturally stunning city hall





The urban Greek's version of a donkey, (and its next generation off-spring)





urban volcano sprawl in Santorini





The electric train ("to hlektriko") heading north to Kifisia





Modern, trendy cafes contrast Chania's historic Harbour
 

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thank you for the very nice pictures :)
 
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The following photo reminds me of the song: "Το παπάκι, πάει στην ποταμιά..." :lol: Thanks for the pics and the link to the site. Good stuff :eek:kay:

 

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^^ If I was walking along this street and encountered those two mopeds, vespas what ever they are, I would kick them onto the roadway..and continue walking....

Footways/Footpaths are for people and not for vehicles/cycle parking.

Will Athens ever learn ? :eek:hno:
 

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NicolasII, I know what you mean about Athens. It's annoying with all those scooters, but a couple of things:

One is that you have to take into consideration the lack of decent parking in the city streets. So from the perspective of the rider or driver, it is literally quite impossible to park otherwise.

The second is that, in your post, you are advocating a violent, provocative act against someone's property. You should fight the problem through legal means, not by becoming a street punk.
 

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Sidewalks++

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Joesmith you are correct about not advocating violent acts against law breakers by ordinary citizens - vigilantism does not make for a very civilized society.

Your other point however about tolerating the breaking of a law against parking on sidewalks due to a lack of parking space is completely erroneous and unacceptable.

First if the law is bad then it should be changed to allow parking on sidewalks. Otherwise what we advocate is that laws can be bent or broken whenever it suits our interest.

Secondly, driving is a "privilege" not a "right". Therefore the onus is on you to find parking - if you can't, too bad! It's your problem - You do not have any right to park on a sidewalk meant only for pedestrians. (take the subway/bus/taxi or walk)

The problem in Greece is that it has twice the number of police officers per capita than any other western country. With so many cops they have no time to write traffic tickets or to police the roads. (For example its a lot more efficient to sit around and smoke and drink coffee rather than wasting fuel patrolling etc.)

Here is my solution: Hire a private company to lift all offending vehicles that park illegally on pubic spaces. The vehicles would be towed to a private guarded compound and the owner would have to pay a fee to have it retrieved.

Do you think there would be many motorbikes parked on Greek sidewalks if the owner had to pay 50 Euro to get it back?

Greeks break laws because there are no penalties and can get away with it -its as simple as that!

ps: There are hundreds of thousands of Greeks who live in New York, Chicago,Toronto, London....do you think they park their vehicles on sidewalks?

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With all the respect but this is really the silliest excuse ever heard!
 

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I take your point sklavenitis ..there are police, around (even dimotiki astinomia) but rarely do they go to the trouble of fining or even cautioning citizens that illegally park on footways. Most law enforcement officers, beleive if they turn a blind eye to the incident, it will go away or become someone else's problem......

From my experience, the whole concept of "civic responsibility and duty" is unfortunately missing in Athens.
 

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I take your point sklavenitis ..there are police, around (even dimotiki astinomia) but rarely do they go to the trouble of fining or even cautioning citizens that illegally park on footways. Most law enforcement officers, beleive if they turn a blind eye to the incident, it will go away or become someone else's problem......

From my experience, the whole concept of "civic responsibility and duty" is unfortunately missing in Athens.
Nicholas, I agree with this completely. It is missing. And this is why I think that it's a bit of a stretch to call Greece a European or Western country. (Epi th eukairia, mhn se paraplanei to onoma toy profil, Ellhnas eimai.)

Such openly corrupt policemen, doctors, politicians etc, as well as a chaotic situation on city streets (i.e. lack of civic duty) is usually what you find in places like Beirut or Marrakesh (or Athens) not in places like Brussels or Zurich.
 

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Joesmith you are correct about not advocating violent acts against law breakers by ordinary citizens - vigilantism does not make for a very civilized society.

Your other point however about tolerating the breaking of a law against parking on sidewalks due to a lack of parking space is completely erroneous and unacceptable.

First if the law is bad then it should be changed to allow parking on sidewalks. Otherwise what we advocate is that laws can be bent or broken whenever it suits our interest.

Secondly, driving is a "privilege" not a "right". Therefore the onus is on you to find parking - if you can't, too bad! It's your problem - You do not have any right to park on a sidewalk meant only for pedestrians. (take the subway/bus/taxi or walk)

The problem in Greece is that it has twice the number of police officers per capita than any other western country. With so many cops they have no time to write traffic tickets or to police the roads. (For example its a lot more efficient to sit around and smoke and drink coffee rather than wasting fuel patrolling etc.)

Here is my solution: Hire a private company to lift all offending vehicles that park illegally on pubic spaces. The vehicles would be towed to a private guarded compound and the owner would have to pay a fee to have it retrieved.

Do you think there would be many motorbikes parked on Greek sidewalks if the owner had to pay 50 Euro to get it back?

Greeks break laws because there are no penalties and can get away with it -its as simple as that!

ps: There are hundreds of thousands of Greeks who live in New York, Chicago,Toronto, London....do you think they park their vehicles on sidewalks?

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Sklavenitis, most of what you say here I agree with.

Except that I don't believe that driving is a privilege. A privilege by who in other words? Who is the driving God that grants you that privilege? I think that's just a load of crap that insurance companies feed you so they can control erradic drivers. Screw that, it's a right when you live in a city. Most cities are built around the automobile in our time.

On the contrary, it is a PRIVILEGE to be an elected official and have the comfortable desk job of controlling the drivers whom these officials claim to be "driving as a privilege".

The private company thing is a good idea, although you know that most of the employees of those tow trucks end up being punks and thugs themselves.

As for the Greeks in the other urban centres you mention, you don't even have to go that far. Greeks behave orderly even in Greece when the system is done right or enforced right from the outset. Just look at the Mall in Marousi, Village Cinemas, or the Metro, so calm and orderly. Also, a lot of people wear seatbelts now when driving for fear of fines. Compare that to getting into an Athenian car in the 80's. ("Giati foras zoni? Eimai kalos odhgos")
 

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Athens groups with cities like Naples or Rome.Even in Florence I have seen a car hitting with its bumbers a whole stand of bicycles and throwing them down because the driver just wanted to park better. For crying out loud joesmith,Marrakesh and Beirut? BEIRUT? Have you ever seen death squads or militias patrolling Athens?
 

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I've been to Rome too and I can say that they too have a parking problem and there will always be idiots who think they can bend or break the rules to suit their own needs! But we have to admit that parking is a problem in these cities including Athens and something more has to be done to improve upon the situation!
 

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Athens groups with cities like Naples or Rome.Even in Florence I have seen a car hitting with its bumbers a whole stand of bicycles and throwing them down because the driver just wanted to park better. For crying out loud joesmith,Marrakesh and Beirut? BEIRUT? Have you ever seen death squads or militias patrolling Athens?
Kuivamaa, Napoli is a fair comparison, but there's no way that Athens groups with Rome, not even close.

Rome has a continuum from ancient times, and was coddled by Europe as a city. Glorious ancient Athens was competely destroyed by the Christians, sacked by the Ottomans, populated by Albanians, and then finally rebuilt with a kind of unplanned, shortsighted, zorba, village mentality. It has only very recently started to improve itself.

As for Beirut, I was referring more to the architecture, chaotic traffic, and generally look, not the political situation in the Middle East.

When you're in Rome, you know you are in Europe, there's no mistake. When you're in Athens the feeling is a little schizophrenic between Europe and the Middle East. We don't like to hear that as Greeks, but it's true.

Not all of Greece feels like this though. Sterea Ellada and the Ionic Islands feel really European.
 

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Joesmith , As you appear to have an interest in Athens' cultural and physical evolution, I encourage you to read the well researched thread titled "Athens 8000 year history" on this site, started by GregorisSocratis.

It makes for very interesting reading and will hopefully, encourage you to revisit some of your views.
 

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Joesmith , As you appear to have an interest in Athens' cultural and physical evolution, I encourage you to read the well researched thread titled "Athens 8000 year history" on this site, started by GregorisSocratis.

It makes for very interesting reading and will hopefully, encourage you to revisit some of your views.
Please provide link..
 

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Kuivamaa, Napoli is a fair comparison, but there's no way that Athens groups with Rome, not even close.

Rome has a continuum from ancient times, and was coddled by Europe as a city. Glorious ancient Athens was competely destroyed by the Christians, sacked by the Ottomans, populated by Albanians, and then finally rebuilt with a kind of unplanned, shortsighted, zorba, village mentality. It has only very recently started to improve itself.

As for Beirut, I was referring more to the architecture, chaotic traffic, and generally look, not the political situation in the Middle East.

When you're in Rome, you know you are in Europe, there's no mistake. When you're in Athens the feeling is a little schizophrenic between Europe and the Middle East. We don't like to hear that as Greeks, but it's true.

Not all of Greece feels like this though. Sterea Ellada and the Ionic Islands feel really European.
Athens feels and looks European to me, I don't understand why you keep comparing it to the middle east unless you are referring to something in particular???
 
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