oooo...This will start a debate. Im not that anywhere in the world has their rural highway tolled. Tolls should be used in places where PT is an option as well. Government should be funding this completely :bash:
User-pays for speedy upgrade (Pacific Motorway Bris -> Syd)
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12620924%5E2702,00.html
User-pays for speedy upgrade
Andrew West, NSW political reporter
March 22, 2005
CHARGING motorists a toll to travel on the Pacific Highway could raise enough extra money to complete the building of a dual carriageway between Sydney and Brisbane within seven years.
Federal Transport Minister John Anderson, who on Sunday floated the idea of user-pays on Australia's busiest highway, yesterday said the cost of such major improvements could reach at least $5billion.
Under the commonwealth-state funding system, it could take up to 25 years to complete the dual carriageway. But a toll on parts of the highway could raise between $2.7billion and $3billion, providing enough money to dramatically speed up improvements.
"I don't think you could do it in under five to seven years," said Mr Anderson. "But that would be a nice target."
The NSW and federal governments are about to commit to another four-year round of funding, worth a combined $320million a year, with Canberra increasing its contribution from the current $60million a year to $160million.
NSW Roads Minister Michael Costa said he was "happy to keeping talking with Canberra about upgrading to get a dual carriageway from Newcastle to the Queensland border".
Federal and state transport officials are working out more details of the proposed toll and Mr Anderson expects to have a "firm proposal" within three months.
"Between the federal and state governments, we're going to spend a lot more money on (the Pacific Highway) over the next few years," Mr Anderson said. "But it's such a major piece of infrastructure and the cost is escalating so rapidly.
"If we could do it the right way, with more innovative funding, involving direct and indirect tolling, and a combination of government financing, we might be able to build it much more quickly and spread the benefits over several generations in a more efficient and equitable way."
The federal Government's main argument in favour of a toll -- besides the desire to speed up the improvements -- is that current taxpayers are paying the entire bill for a major project that will last many generations.
"The reality is that this particular piece of engineering is so big and complicated, and frankly, will swallow up so much taxpayers' money," Mr Anderson said.
"It doesn't seem unreasonable that those who benefit most from the use might be given the opportunity to contribute a little bit more."
The federal Bureau of Transport Economics predicts freight volume on the Pacific Highway will more than double in the next 20 years.
The trucking industry has rejected the idea of a special toll for its members, saying all motorists using the highway should contribute equally. But the Government argues that a levy would pay for such dramatic improvements that, in the long term, freight companies would save much more money on fuel and travel time.
Mr Anderson also favours a plan to remove the toll after it has raised enough to cover construction costs.
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What about in France and Italy? They have tolls on all motorways there. To drive the equivalent of the Pacific Highway (Sydney-Brisbane) in France would cost you around $30.Q-TIP said:oooo...This will start a debate. Im not that anywhere in the world has their rural highway tolled. Tolls should be used in places where PT is an option as well. Government should be funding this completely :bash:
Oh sorry, i meant rural highways. ^ Although, do you agree with introducing a toll?sirhc8 said:What about in France and Italy? They have tolls on all motorways there. To drive the equivalent of the Pacific Highway (Sydney-Brisbane) in France would cost you around $30.
No I don't agree with a toll for the public. But I agree with a BOOT scheme where the government pays a private consortium over 30 years rather than motorists.
BTW - how do you define a rural highway? If the Pacific Highway becomes freeway standard dual carriageway, isn't it the same as those tolled motorways overseas?
BTW - how do you define a rural highway? If the Pacific Highway becomes freeway standard dual carriageway, isn't it the same as those tolled motorways overseas?
not really, a lot of the Pacific (and indeed Hume) Highway will be duplicated yes, but freeway, no. A large number of at-grade intersections will continue to exist. Most sections of highway which are duplicated on their existing alignment (this generally involves ripping up the old carriageway to improve vertical elevation and substantial curve easing) retain all the at-grade intersections of the old highway. This means everything from gateways to farmhouses to regional roads carrying thousands of vehicles per day intersect the highway (and although such roads should be grade-separated, many aren't, at least initially)
I know $5 billion is alot of money but I had thought that the federal government was making enough money to cover the expense of making the busiest highway in the country alot safer. I travel this road a number of times a year and while I wouldnt necessarily mind paying the toll (if its reasonable) how would you place the toll so that one area isnt paying more than another area. Places like Coffs Harbour have a lot of outlying towns that rely on Coffs as their business centre and for these people to have to pay a toll is unreasonable IMO. Also, what about all those people north of Byron, and south of Sydney and between Sydney and Newcastle who already have the improvements, will they get charged? It just seems like it would be difficult to make a toll fair.
I also think the Federal Government tends to hand alot of infrastructure projects off to the states unreasonably, its a national highway and should be funded by the Federal Govt.
I also think the Federal Government tends to hand alot of infrastructure projects off to the states unreasonably, its a national highway and should be funded by the Federal Govt.
I think that a decent freight rail network should be built, and then trucks should be tolled to travel on the major highways(Pacific, Bruce, Hume, Newell, Princess). Tolls could even be brought in on the Sturt Highway now that they have an adjacent rail line.
I don't mind paying a toll (within reason) if it means the highway will be upgraded ASAP. I travel the Pacific Highway regularly and I honestly can't say I look forward to any trip along it.
Yes, user pays seems the best way to get this done. Plenty of the interstates in the USA are tolled.
It costs alot to build it, money better spent elswhere if you can. (Say a fast train or 2) On a hyway as big as this and with Australias population no bigger than that of New York with a land mass so vast I think it's the smartest option. But I know that there are those who think everything is covered by tax and so It should be free.....but they will be the ones who jump up and down when something goes wrong or it costs too much in tax!
hmm a toll along the highway after the initial shock, i guess its one way to raise funds for it.....anyone up for brisbane -> sydney via new england hwy? 
the article doesn't mention anything about the tugun bypass....
fast train? why have that when we have low cost airfares with virgin blue and jetstar, or to an extent....countrylink is kinda fast.....
the article doesn't mention anything about the tugun bypass....
fast train? why have that when we have low cost airfares with virgin blue and jetstar, or to an extent....countrylink is kinda fast.....
Though, i like the idea of opening up the country to population, but a freeway standard road thru here would be more expensive due to terrain of the Moonbi Hills north of Tamworth and the climb from Armidale (950m asl) to Brisbane. Though something like the Adelaide Hills tunnel will do the trick from the Moonbi side.Me_Simon said:hmm a toll along the highway after the initial shock, i guess its one way to raise funds for it.....anyone up for brisbane -> sydney via new england hwy?
> New England State 300 000square kilometres
> State Capital; Armidale
> Largest cities; Coffs Harbour, Tamworth, Lismore, Tweed Heads, Port Macquarie, Armidale, Grafton, Taree.....
Moonbi township to halfway up is freeway grade already. The top half of the pass is crazy narrow though.
Since when is Coffs Harbour, Lismore, Tweed Heads, Port Macquarie, Grafton or Taree part of New England, and since when is New England a state?
if I recall correctly, some bone-headed politician a while ago thought it'd be a good idea if Australia split up into more states, so we could have even more government presence. New England was one of the proposed states.
I really disagree with those who think that a fast railway system is the way to go. Whenever I venture into NSW, I need my car for transport. A fast train would be good if you like travelling on that sort of thing, but for me it's always planes or cars. I fly obviously if I'm going to Sydney or elsewhere large. If I'm going to a more remote area, there is no bloody way you'll find me on a train. It's far too inconvenient.
Upgrade the friggin' highway already!
I really disagree with those who think that a fast railway system is the way to go. Whenever I venture into NSW, I need my car for transport. A fast train would be good if you like travelling on that sort of thing, but for me it's always planes or cars. I fly obviously if I'm going to Sydney or elsewhere large. If I'm going to a more remote area, there is no bloody way you'll find me on a train. It's far too inconvenient.
Upgrade the friggin' highway already!
More
Minister defends toll for Pacific Highway
Steven Wardill
23mar05
FEDERAL Transport Minister John Anderson has defended a proposed charge on Pacific Highway motorists, despite claims that other capital city road links have been built toll-free.
Motoring groups have condemned a proposal to charge motorists a toll for travelling between Brisbane and Sydney as a method of fast-tracking the Pacific Highway's upgrade to dual carriageway.
They argue other major links between capital cities and large centres, such as the Hume Highway between Sydney and Melbourne, have been funded out of government coffers so a Pacific Highway toll would be unfair.
Other major links undertaken in recent years without tolls include the Federal Highway from Sydney to Canberra, the M1 from Gold Coast to Brisbane and the F3 from Sydney to Newcastle.
Leading infrastructure and toll-road operators have told the NSW and federal governments the remaining two-thirds of the Pacific could be delivered up to 20 years earlier if charges were introduced.
Already more than $2 billion has been spent upgrading the key link.
But the remaining section will cost up to $7 billion and take 25 years to complete despite a new joint-funding agreement between NSW and Canberra.
A spokesman for Mr Anderson said yesterday the Minister was not against tolls on other parts of the national network.
But he said the Pacific Highway was more urgent because the current time frame to deliver a safer dual carriageway was unacceptable.
"We are talking about infrastructure that is going to be used for decades, if not centuries, to come," the spokesman said.
"There is an argument that you can bring forward now, get the benefit now and pay for it over a longer period of time."
But RACQ economics and public policy manager Ken Willett yesterday said the Federal Government would be double-dipping by charging tolls.
Mr Willett said the Commonwealth returned just 16 per cent of the $14 billion a year it collected in fuel excise.
"(The Federal Government) has decided it has higher priorities for the 84 per cent of fuel excise that goes elsewhere."
Mr Willett said the Government, if allowed, would continue to use tolls on other needy road sections.
"The next thing we could hear is that we have got some dangerous areas on the Bruce Highway and they could bring that forward by putting tolls on it," he said.
The NSW and federal governments are expected to announce a joint $1.6 billion five year spending program for the Pacific route. They are also considering direct and so-called "shadow" tolls where governments agree to pay a private road builder for the use of their road by certain traffic types.
Mr Anderson has indicated he would want locals using the Pacific Highway for short trips to travel toll-free.
Tolling experts say e-tags or number-plate recognition could be used on the highway.
www.newstates.netGMAC said:Since when is Coffs Harbour, Lismore, Tweed Heads, Port Macquarie, Grafton or Taree part of New England, and since when is New England a state?
I think that a decent freight rail network should be built, and then trucks should be tolled to travel on the major highways(Pacific, Bruce, Hume, Newell, Princess). Tolls could even be brought in on the Sturt Highway now that they have an adjacent rail line.
^ They will need to duplicate the track, to ever concede putting a toll on an outback highway.
30 dollars is cheap.sirhc8 said:What about in France and Italy? They have tolls on all motorways there. To drive the equivalent of the Pacific Highway (Sydney-Brisbane) in France would cost you around $30.
The same distance in Japan would cost just over 200 US dollars.
I currently use the expressway between Wakayama city and Osaka.The cost is 25 US Dollars for the 80km trip.Crazy!!!!
I guess that helps to explain why the trains are so popular over there...Nick said:30 dollars is cheap.
The same distance in Japan would cost just over 200 US dollars.
I currently use the expressway between Wakayama city and Osaka.The cost is 25 US Dollars for the 80km trip.Crazy!!!!
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