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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Adam Goodes writes:

...This extraordinary film tells the unpleasant truth. It should be required viewing for every Australian...

...It takes courage to tell the truth, no matter how unpopular those truths may be. But it also takes courage to face up to our past.

That process starts with understanding our very dark past, a brutal history of dispossession, theft and slaughter. For that reason, I urge the many fair-minded Australians who seek genuine prosperity and equality for my people to find the courage to open their hearts and their minds and watch Utopia.

There is a good reason why Pilger's film resonates with so many of my people and is the talk of Aboriginal Australia...

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/hosti...al-of-nations-brutal-past-20140302-33ttx.html
 

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I seriously think some of these people expect a hospital in every tinpot little desert hovel.

I saw it on SBS and was disgusted by the narrator's smugness and hostility towards those trying to make a difference.

One example of supposed disadvantage (with racial overtones) was whinging about a lack of public transport. Well **** me, go to any tiny country town in Victoria and you won't find public transport, let alone in the middle of buttfuck nowhere in NT or WA. Neither can you expect utilities when there isn't anyone to foot the bill.

The main issues seem to arise from attempting to meld together an industrial culture with a nomadic one.

tl;dr black armband BS
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hmmm, could be wrong, but sounds like you went into it with a 'white arm-band' mentality. Other than the criticisms you have, valid or not, I wonder if you picked up on the salient points it was trying to make? I mean for one, do you accept Adam Goodes view?
 

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Adam Goodes is an Australian...I reckon...hope he realises that sooner than later...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
^^ lol...stating the obvious, yeah he's Australian with more ancestry in this land than most of us too...and?
 

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I respect Adam Goodes and all his ancestry..but an Australian is me...and maybe you...and Alan Goodes...I am so tired of feeling I have to diminish myself as an Australian when me...or you have no home, no country no roots...because our ancestors came from somewhere else on the planet...meaning an elevation above sea level...Australia as a country only existed after 1788...before that sure people lived on this land and they had what was then. This is now and has been for a long time and whoever lives here and accepts here and belongs here and makes home here is Australian...I wont accept less...If Adam Goodes or anyone else wants to separate themselves that's their problem...I am Australian and proud of it...and heck..I have been here longer than him !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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̙͈̩ͫ̎Ż̌ͫ&
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Hmmm, could be wrong, but sounds like you went into it with a 'white arm-band' mentality. Other than the criticisms you have, valid or not, I wonder if you picked up on the salient points it was trying to make? I mean for one, do you accept Adam Goodes view?
I went into it with a scientific mentality - one doesn't take opinion as fact.

It's intellectually weak to simply label those with an open mind, who don't just swallow up such opinions mindlessly, as weak willed, uncomfortable, or even racist.

Some like Pilger seek to overdramatise Aboriginal history (from way away in England) with claims of genocide that don't match up with historical record, to try and raise guilt in the general populace, for events in a different time that had nothing to do with them.

The condition of remote Aboriginal communities is generally due to their complete isolation, with the costs of providing even basic services extremely high, especially given little to no taxable incomes from said communities. Urban issues also seem more endemically cultural than racially motivated.

Billions goes into remote communities, into Aboriginal bureaucracy, into Aboriginal specific welfare, university places, healthcare, employment schemes, etc., so it's completely disingenuous to say nothing is being done. You need to ask whether some really want to integrate into society, or would prefer to return to scavenging in the desert.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
^^ OK I see where you're coming from but I certainly don't agree with it. I think your views are misguided and I'm not trying to point the finger at you personally because I can't blame you, for it is what the media has brainwashed you into thinking. I just feel that you should try to think beyond the stereotypes and mainstream views and this doco seems to offer us this.

@ red, why so defensive dude? Yes you are an Australian and that may be an accident of birth and no choice of your own, just like myself. Please bear in mind though that 'nations' are a relatively new phenomenon and Australia as a nation was formed in 1901. Before that and even after everyone other than the Indigenous folk were British or British subjects and some foreigners (lots actually) think Australians still are, considering we're still a part of the monarchy with the Queen as our head of State and of course our flag.
 

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See, now I'm brainwashed because I don't agree with your unsubstantiated view.

Does that make you brainwashed for accepting Utopia at face value?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well your views seem to correspond with the people interviewed on Australia Day in that doco. My views are different and I'm not really postulating any of them here.

You must mean the views of the doco film-maker, Adam Goodes and the people interviewed in that doco who for the most part are 'on the ground' experts in their fields. Why would it be hard for someone, anyone, not to believe them, other than the fact that they possibly may be brainwashed in beleiving what they already do and refuse to sway from that? One can not underestimate the power of the media on all of us, consciously and subconsciously, but if we become aware of its power then maybe we will be more weary of it and look for alternate sources, the 'other voices' and then make an informed decision from that position. That's all I'm saying.
 

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Well your views seem to correspond with the people interviewed on Australia Day in that doco. My views are different and I'm not really postulating any of them here.

You must mean the views of the doco film-maker, Adam Goodes and the people interviewed in that doco who for the most part are 'on the ground' experts in their fields. Why would it be hard for someone, anyone, not to believe them, other than the fact that they possibly may be brainwashed in beleiving what they already do and refuse to sway from that? One can not underestimate the power of the media on all of us, consciously and subconsciously, but if we become aware of its power then maybe we will be more weary of it and look for alternate sources, the 'other voices' and then make an informed decision from that position. That's all I'm saying.
So basically all you can do is belittle anyone who doesn't mindlessly adhere to your opinion.

So what are the problems and what do you want to do to solve them?

Or are you going to take the usual angle of Pilger et al. and just con everyone into a guilt trip?
 

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I respect Adam Goodes and all his ancestry..but an Australian is me...and maybe you...and Alan Goodes...I am so tired of feeling I have to diminish myself as an Australian when me...or you have no home, no country no roots...because our ancestors came from somewhere else on the planet...meaning an elevation above sea level...Australia as a country only existed after 1788...before that sure people lived on this land and they had what was then. This is now and has been for a long time and whoever lives here and accepts here and belongs here and makes home here is Australian...I wont accept less...If Adam Goodes or anyone else wants to separate themselves that's their problem...I am Australian and proud of it...and heck..I have been here longer than him !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You never seemed like a man who feels insecure and diminished to me Baron and I can't see why the likes of a strident firebrand Pilger or a champion footballer like Goodes would make you feel the way you have posted here. Goodes views probably come from his upbringing and he is using his Australian of the Year award to be an advocate against racism and seems proud to be Australian. As for John Pilger I think he has a role to play but bit too anti Western and far too lenient on some of the deeds of those who oppose the West for my liking.
By the way in my humble opinion Australia as a country formed in 1901 on Federation.:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
So basically all you can do is belittle anyone who doesn't mindlessly adhere to your opinion.

So what are the problems and what do you want to do to solve them?

Or are you going to take the usual angle of Pilger et al. and just con everyone into a guilt trip?
I think you should read what Goodes wrote and your questions should be answered.
 

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^^ The passage that Goodes wrote, while emotional, offers no solutions. Although a real problem is highlighted in the first few sentences. "Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians" We can watch all the movies and wring our hands all we like, until we throw away this notion that we're somehow different, then all efforts are doomed to failure.
 

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I'll watch the movie in spite of it's emotive and nonsensical title.

The past was brutal and not just for aboriginal peoples. Though i agree with the silence mistreatment of aboriginal peoples gets, I feel there is some attempt at forwarding some sort of sovereignty movement.
 

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I think you should read what Goodes wrote and your questions should be answered.
Where?

First he claims that the silence regarding the film is some construct of denial, rather than it just being shoddy, pointless work by an arrogant arse that doesn't contain any real insight.

He uses terms like 'slaughter' that perpetuate the genocide myths, and ties in a backhand to government associating it with 'rape' and self-interest whilst ignoring the billions that goes into attempting to help Aboriginal citizens. If government really didn't care, if it was solely operating in self-interest, there would be no power, no water, no sanitation, no healthcare, no welfare, no roads etc. and these outback communities would just disappear.

He then moves onto attempting to shame the general populace as if the events in unenlightened times, where nicking a loaf to feed yourself scored you transportation to the other side of the Earth, is somehow their fault. This of course ignores the fact that a great proportion of the nations ancestry is from emigration at later stages, and isn't even related to the colonial beginnings.

We then move onto stolen generations, of which his mother, apparently represents (which would make her quite old). The general insinuation being that talking children from parents is wrong under all circumstances, and that such events are race related. This despite the DHS routinely taking exactly the same actions for 'white' children where there is abuse, or where wellbeing cannot be ensured.

So, no. Absolutely no description of problems or solutions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
OK, first problem. Denial that a problem exists. First solution. Accept that there's a problem. And I don't mean you personally, but generally for all Australians.
 
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