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Should Vancouver's supervised drug injection site remain open?

  • YES

    Votes: 18 81.8%
  • NO

    Votes: 4 18.2%
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·




From Wikipedia:

Insite is the first legal supervised safe injection site in North America, located at 139 East Hastings Street, in the troubled Downtown Eastside neighbourhood of Vancouver, British Columbia. The site provides a clean, safe location for injection drug use, primarily heroin, cocaine, and morphine. Medical staff are present to provide addiction treatment, mental health assistance, and first aid in the event of an overdose or wound.

Over a two year period ending March 31, 2006, the site recorded an average of 607 visits per day and 453 overdoses total, with none resulting in a fatality. Health Canada has provided $500,000 per year to operate the site, and the BC Ministry of Health contributed $1,200,000 to renovate the site and cover operating costs.

Since opening, the site has been the focus of numerous scientific studies, in peer-reviewed journals such as the New England Journal of Medicine, The Lancet, the British Medical Journal, and the Canadian Medical Association Journal. Findings have shown that the site has led to a reduction of public injections, neighbourhood litter, and needle sharing. It has also led to an increase in detoxification and addiction treatment, and has not been shown to increase crime or rates of relapse in former drug users.

Partners include the City of Vancouver, the Vancouver Police Department, and the PHS Community Services Society. The site also has the support of the current Vancouver mayor, Sam Sullivan, and former high-profile Vancouver mayors Larry Campbell, Mike Harcourt, and Philip Owen. The International AIDS Society and the B.C. Centre for Excellence in HIV-AIDS, and the Canadian Union of Public and General Employees also support Insite. Though originally opposed to the safe injection site, Chinatown and Gastown merchants associations now support it. International supporters include the UK-based think tank Senlis Council and the Australian Parliamentary Group for Drug Law Reform.

The site has drawn criticism from the Bush administration; the director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy called it "state-sponsored suicide" at the time of its opening. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police do not support Insite, despite the fact that a report commissioned by the RCMP (conducted by two criminologists) concluded in favour of the safe injection site.

Operation and possible closure

Insite has been operated since 2003 by Vancouver Coastal Health, under a special exemption from the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, granted by the Liberal government via Health Canada. The site was slated to close on September 12, 2006, as the exemption was for a three year pilot project. Insite's future is currently being decided by the new Conservative government; a temporary extension has been granted until a final decision is made.

Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper has voiced opposition to the site in the past, saying that "We as a government will not use taxpayers' money to fund drug use." In mid-July, Conservative government MP David Fletcher stated that the current government would let the exemption lapse before deciding whether to continue the project. The following week a spokesman for Tony Clement, the Minister of Health, refuted that statement, saying that a decision had not been made yet. During the XVI International AIDS Conference, held in Toronto, two high-ranking Liberal MPs (Bill Graham and Keith Martin) put their support behind the centre, and criticized the Conservative government for delaying their decision. Insite supporters also demonstrated in Toronto during the conference, prompting the government to further delay any announcement, citing the week's 'politicized' nature.

On September 1, 2006, Health Minister Tony Clement deferred the decision of whether to extend the exemption for the site, citing a need for more research. However, on the same day the government cut all funding for future research, amounting to $1.5 million in lost research money. Insite will stay open until as late as December 31, 2007, while its fate is decided.




MY TAKE ON IT:


This is the DTES, a postal code that is simultaneously the poorest in Canada and recipient of the highest per-capita social service spending in the country. It is in this area that Insite, the city operated supervised injection site for intravenous drug users, operates with a certificate exempting it from the Canada Health Act. This is harm reduction in action and everyone, including the Vancouver Police Department, local business improvement associations, academics, and the mayor all agree it is worth pursuing because nothing else works.

Harm reduction is the “fourth pillar” of Vancouver's drug policy with the other three being prevention, enforcement, and treatment. Harm reduction acknowledges that addicts are going to shoot up and if it is done in a supervised site then it won't be done on the street, where infections from impure water and dirty, shared needles abound, and the dangerous blight of abandoned drug paraphernalia and broken needles endangers everyone. Nurses are on site and overdoses are responded to immediately.

To date there has never been a single fatal overdose at the supervised injection site, unlike on the street. Each patron is given a sterile needle, saline water, and whatever else they need to shoot up their own junk without making themselves worse. “Canada's New Government”, the Stephen Harper Conservatives, are against the safe injection site because of moral ideology and are undertaking a review of the program with the stated intention to see if it should not be shut down. The peer-reviewed scholarly studies of the project, and there are plenty since it is the only one of its type in North America and the DTES is crawling with epidemiologist researchers, are uniform in their findings that a safe injection site slows the spread of HIV and is an effective tool to support the other three pillars of drug policy. Moreover, it gets it off the streets and reduces the harm open-air drug use causes to a city.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Injection site threatened
Tories set to cut off funding for harm reduction

Janice Tibbetts, CanWest News Service
Published: Wednesday, May 23, 2007

OTTAWA -- The Harper government's new anti-drug strategy is expected to get tough with grow-ops and pushers and is retreating from "harm reduction" measures, including Vancouver's safe-injection site.

The new strategy, to be announced next week, is also understood to include more money for treatment and a national drug-use prevention campaign.

The federal budget in March allocated an additional $64 million over two years for enforcement, treatment and prevention. But harm-reduction measures, which aim to limit the spread of infectious diseases were not mentioned.

"They haven't explicitly said they are getting rid of harm reduction, but the budget numbers speak for themselves," said Leon Mar, spokesman for the Canadian HIV-AIDS Legal Network. "There is no money for harm reduction, which is quite ominous."

Joanne Csete, the network's executive director, recently told MPs that the Conservatives are contemplating "a U.S.-style war on drugs, an approach that has proven to be counter-productive and a tragic waste of public funds."

Tony Cannavino, president of the Canadian Police Association, said a proposed "say-no-to-drugs" campaign would counter a perception among young people that marijuana is legal, in light of a failed Liberal bid to decriminalize the possession of small amounts of the drug.C

Current spending goes to treatment, prevention, and harm-reduction measures such as needle-exchange programs, in which addicts trade dirty needles for sterile ones, and the supervised injection site in Vancouver, where addicts can legally inject themselves with the help of medical professionals.

The Conservatives have been skeptical about the injection site. Last September, Health Minister Tony Clement ignored his department's advice to renew the site's licence for another 31/2 years, electing instead to give it only a one-year reprieve.


© The Vancouver Province 2007
 

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Sorry for whoever opposes me on this, but I am 110% in favour of these injection sites, and will fight the cretins who are "skeptical" about them. It is about fighting disease, and it is about helping our fellow man who happens to be a bit down at the heel at the moment. This is not promoting drugs, this is accepting that they will exist no matter what, and making sure that they are done safely.
In conclusion I say:
1) Keep the injection sites
2) Boot out the morons in the Conservative Party who are temporarily feebly attempting to control our lives.

"Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper has voiced opposition to the site in the past, saying that "We as a government will not use taxpayers' money to fund drug use"


Just in case anyone out there needed further proof that this dolt should not be running the country.
 

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the government cut all funding for future research, amounting to $1.5 million in lost research money
the Conservatives are contemplating "a U.S.-style war on drugs, an approach that has proven to be counter-productive and a tragic waste of public funds."
Last September, Health Minister Tony Clement ignored his department's advice to renew the site's licence for another 31/2 years
“Canada's New Government” is comprised of idiots. They have "tunnel vision" and won't recognize errors in their policies, despite numerous reports that prove them wrong. Sadly, this is only one of MANY errors they've made. :eek:hno: Everybody do your part to boot them out in the next election!

I also 110% support safe injection sites. There's always an underlying issue why people do drugs. Throwing people in jail does NOTHING to solve these inner issues. Addicts need councelling services and support groups.

For a better understanding, I urge everyone to watch an episode of "Intervention" on A&E:

"Intervention™ is a powerful and gripping television series in which people confront their darkest demons and seek a route to redemption. The Intervention Television series profiles people whose dependence on drugs and alcohol or other compulsive behavior has brought them to a point of personal crisis and estranged them from their friends and loved ones. Each Intervention episode ends with a surprise intervention that is staged by the family and friends of the alcohol of drug addict, and which is conducted by one of four Intervention specialists: Jeff VanVonderen, Candy Finningan, Ken Seeley and Tara Fields.

Intervention™raises awareness about the alternatives and treatment options available to those who suffer from an alcohol or drug addiction, and gives hope to families who have nowhere left to turn."

Schedule:
Friday, May. 25
10:00pm 28 - Mike and James
11:00pm 39 - Trent

Saturday, May. 26
2:00am 28 - Mike and James
3:00am 39 - Trent

Friday, Jun. 1
10:00pm 42 - Laney
11:00pm 41 - Jessica and ...

Episode 38 - Anthony
http://www.aetv.com/intervention/int_episode_guide.jsp?episode=215322
Anthony has been working at the pizzerias owned by his family since he was a kid. A good athlete, colleges offered him baseball scholarships. But at 14, everything changed. His sister died of a heroin overdose and his mother fell into an emotional black hole. Anthony found comfort in cocaine, and today he needs methadone to get him through the day until he can shoot coke at night. His family is not ready to let him hit rock bottom, but Anthony won't get better until his entire family embraces change.


Is it really that shocking to see someone, who at 14 saw his sister die from an overdose and watched his mom become depressed, end up doing coke? It's not his fault for what happened to him as a teenager. This is a good kid that just needs counselling to help deal with the loss of his sister, who wouldn't? A U.S.-style war on drugs is NOT the answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Vancouver safe injection site led to boost in treatment: Study

ROD MICKLEBURGH
Globe and Mail Update

May 24, 2007 at 6:56 PM EDT

VANCOUVER — Vancouver's controversial safe injection site has prompted increasing numbers of heroin users to seek treatment for their addictions, according to a significant new study in next month's issue of the medical journal, Addiction.

The study, conducted by researchers with the B.C. Centre for Excellence in HIV/AIDS, found a 30-per-cent increase in the rate of addicts entering detox, once they began using the supervised injection facility known as Insite.

The study also determined that Insite users were more likely to reduce their heroin intake and pursue treatment programs once they left detox.

The findings appear to echo what the ultimate arbiter of the facility's fate, Health Minister Tony Clement, has said it should demonstrate: lower drug use and success in fighting addiction.

The findings also contradict an RCMP report that claimed “considerable evidence” showed that making drug use safer, as Insite does, increases the number of users.

Despite the latest study, backers of what is North America's only supervised injection site for heroin addicts continue to fear that the Conservative government will end the facility's operation at the end of the year because of its ideological opposition to harm-reduction programs for drug users.

The Tories are expected to announce their long-awaited anti-drug strategy next week.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Safe injection sites won't spread - Harper
Peter O'Neil, Vancouver Sun
Published: Monday, July 09, 2007

OTTAWA - Canadian cities interested in emulating Vancouver's experimental supervised injection site for drug addicts shouldn't held their breath, Prime Minister Stephen Harper indicated today.

The Harper government, which plans to introduce a get-tough policy to combat the drug trade, will decide by the end of 2007 whether to extend the Vancouver facility's permit to operate.

Several other cities, including Victoria, have expressed an interest in getting a Health Canada exemption to permit the establishment of a similar facility. The Vancouver site provides addicts access to clean needles and assistance from health professionals.

But Harper and Health Minister Tony Clement, as well as U.S. government officials, have questioned research supporting the use and expansion of supervised injection sites.

"We're still studying the one in Vancouver," Harper told reporters at a media event on Vancouver Island.

"We have no plans at the moment to expand them."
 

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I'd rather the government spend my money in better ways than drug addicts. If you find a drug addict, throw them in jail until they are finished withdrawal, and then release them. That would be a better way to spend my money.
 

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If you find a drug addict, throw them in jail until they are finished withdrawal, and then release them. That would be a better way to spend my money.
Do you have any facts to back this up, or are you just going with your gut? Because my gut tells me that could lead to a whole lot of problems.
 

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I'd rather the government spend my money in better ways than drug addicts. If you find a drug addict, throw them in jail until they are finished withdrawal, and then release them. That would be a better way to spend my money.
I'm glad your not working for the government Phunky . :nuts: I'm only joking with you.
 

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Sorry for whoever opposes me on this, but I am 110% in favour of these injection sites, and will fight the cretins who are "skeptical" about them. It is about fighting disease, and it is about helping our fellow man who happens to be a bit down at the heel at the moment. This is not promoting drugs, this is accepting that they will exist no matter what, and making sure that they are done safely.
In conclusion I say:
1) Keep the injection sites
2) Boot out the morons in the Conservative Party who are temporarily feebly attempting to control our lives.

"Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper has voiced opposition to the site in the past, saying that "We as a government will not use taxpayers' money to fund drug use"


Just in case anyone out there needed further proof that this dolt should not be running the country.
I have to agree with you, sometimes you Know what your talking about.:)
 

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Is it cheaper for society to treat them for Hiv or hepatitis? What could be cheaper than providing clean needles? What about a modicum of compassion?
These are human beings we are talking about, not animals.
Agreed. Jail would also be much more expensive.
 

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I agree with the provincial liberals on this one! I think that those with a problem would be better off in a smaller city in BC. I think a drug injection site is a tax payers burden for helping those with a problem remain with this problem. Hey look at me I get to live in bc and do my drugs for free! Wow I really got one on the tax payers I dont even have to stop doing drugs!

Listen these people need help and they need reality! Not a free ride on the tax payers!
They need a change in location! Now those with mental problems need to be in institutions! Those with drug problems need to work in small communities in BC or Canada.
You cant always get the easy ride!
 

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I agree with the provincial liberals on this one! I think that those with a problem would be better off in a smaller city in BC. I think a drug injection site is a tax payers burden for helping those with a problem remain with this problem. Hey look at me I get to live in bc and do my drugs for free! Wow I really got one on the tax payers I dont even have to stop doing drugs!

Listen these people need help and they need reality! Not a free ride on the tax payers!
They need a change in location! Now those with mental problems need to be in institutions! Those with drug problems need to work in small communities in BC or Canada.
You cant always get the easy ride!
WTF? Are you on drugs? They aren't providing free drugs, they are providing free needles. This is the type of mindless misinformation that people who work with drug addicts have to face. It is about as much of a burden on the taxpayers as a baby diaper changing station at a park.
 

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WTF? Are you on drugs? They aren't providing free drugs, they are providing free needles. This is the type of mindless misinformation that people who work with drug addicts have to face. It is about as much of a burden on the taxpayers as a baby diaper changing station at a park.
I would have to say I certainly appreciate you interest in myself. No I do not do drugs. I do enjoy a cold beer especially when the temperatures get in the high 30s though:)
I am certainly not mindless because I believe if they are providing needles to drug addicts for the purpose of doing drugs that are illegal. They are saying it is ok in our society!
This certainly is not the route to take! This is the route of someone who has given up!
So if we say it is ok to do drugs that are illegal or support the use of these drugs then you can say it is ok to support a child pedofile to support this person they should help children because this will help him get over this problem?

Society has laws these laws are in place to protect the interests of our society.
If someone breaks the law then they should be dealt with.


You cannot help someone if you support there bad habits.

This issue is a idividual issue. If someone wants to change there life they can. Help is important but with the proper support!
This means not giving needles to drug addicts period!!!

With this all said I would like to support you with you problem on the tax payers paying for baby diaper changing stations because I know you need it!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
This is the DTES, a postal code that is simultaneously the poorest in Canada and recipient of the highest per-capita social service spending in the country. It is in this area that Insite, the city operated supervised injection site for intravenous drug users, operates with a certificate exempting it from the Canada Health Act. This is harm reduction in action and everyone, including the Vancouver Police Department, local business improvement associations, academics, and the mayor all agree it is worth pursuing because nothing else works.

Harm reduction is the “fourth pillar” of Vancouver's drug policy with the other three being prevention, enforcement, and treatment. Harm reduction acknowledges that addicts are going to shoot up and if it is done in a supervised site then it won't be done on the street, where infections from impure water and dirty, shared needles abound, and the dangerous blight of abandoned drug paraphernalia and broken needles endangers everyone. Nurses are on site and overdoses are responded to immediately.

To date there has never been a single fatal overdose at the supervised injection site, unlike on the street. Each patron is given a sterile needle, saline water, and whatever else they need to shoot up their own junk without making themselves worse. “Canada's New Government”, the Stephen Harper Conservatives, are against the safe injection site because of moral ideology and are undertaking a review of the program with the stated intention to see if it should not be shut down. The peer-reviewed scholarly studies of the project, and there are plenty since it is the only one of its type in North America and the DTES is crawling with epidemiologist researchers, are uniform in their findings that a safe injection site slows the spread of HIV and is an effective tool to support the other three pillars of drug policy. Moreover, it gets it off the streets and reduces the harm open-air drug use causes to a city.
 

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This is the DTES, a postal code that is simultaneously the poorest in Canada and recipient of the highest per-capita social service spending in the country. It is in this area that Insite, the city operated supervised injection site for intravenous drug users, operates with a certificate exempting it from the Canada Health Act. This is harm reduction in action and everyone, including the Vancouver Police Department, local business improvement associations, academics, and the mayor all agree it is worth pursuing because nothing else works.

Harm reduction is the “fourth pillar” of Vancouver's drug policy with the other three being prevention, enforcement, and treatment. Harm reduction acknowledges that addicts are going to shoot up and if it is done in a supervised site then it won't be done on the street, where infections from impure water and dirty, shared needles abound, and the dangerous blight of abandoned drug paraphernalia and broken needles endangers everyone. Nurses are on site and overdoses are responded to immediately.

To date there has never been a single fatal overdose at the supervised injection site, unlike on the street. Each patron is given a sterile needle, saline water, and whatever else they need to shoot up their own junk without making themselves worse. “Canada's New Government”, the Stephen Harper Conservatives, are against the safe injection site because of moral ideology and are undertaking a review of the program with the stated intention to see if it should not be shut down. The peer-reviewed scholarly studies of the project, and there are plenty since it is the only one of its type in North America and the DTES is crawling with epidemiologist researchers, are uniform in their findings that a safe injection site slows the spread of HIV and is an effective tool to support the other three pillars of drug policy. Moreover, it gets it off the streets and reduces the harm open-air drug use causes to a city.
MR.X with all do respect is this helping people? I understand the moral divide on this issue. I feel it becomes a safe haven for people to do drugs! Well society supports it they have a free site for needles!
Interesting as this information is that you have it does not deal with any personal problems!
It is the individual that is important! Society is the problem! your review reflects this with the scholars studies!
Everything is done with society in mind not the individual! This is the biggest problem with society!

Sure society can destroy an individual but can society help an individual?

Do you support an individual with telling him what he is doing with drugs is right? Or do you tell this individual he needs help to change his lifestyle?

It really depends on what society wants! The rich person does not want to see a drug addict in downtown Vancouver but will this rich person do anything to support a change in his life?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
^ we've done everything and spent millions in trying to rid of the Downtown Eastside's drug problems and it never really worked. The drug injection clinic is the thing that remotely works, and is being used by other cities around the world including Sydney and Amsterdam.

Here are some results from studies/research on Insite:

- Insite is leading to increased uptake into detoxification programs and addiction treatment. (New England Journal of Medicine)
- Insite has not led to an increase in drug-related crime, rates of arrest for drug trafficking, assaults and robbery were similar after the facility’s opening, and rates of vehicle break-ins/theft declined significantly. (Substance Abuse Treatment, Prevention, and Policy)
- Insite has reduced the number of people injecting in public and the amount of injection-related litter in the downtown eastside. (Canadian Medical Association Journal)
- Insite is attracting the highest-risk users – those more likely to be vulnerable to HIV infection and overdose, and who were contributing to problems of public drug use and unsafe syringe disposal. (American Journal of Preventive Medicine)
- Insite has reduced overall rates of needle sharing in the community, and among those who used the supervised injection site for some, most or all of their injections, 70% were less likely to report syringe sharing. (The Lancet)
- Nearly one-third of Insite users received information relating to safer injecting practices. Those who received help injecting from fellow injection drug users on the streets were more than twice as likely to have received safer injecting education at Insite. (The International Journal of Drug Policy)
- Insite is not increasing rates of relapse among former drug users, nor is it a negative influence on those seeking to stop drug use. (British Medical Journal)


Health Outcomes

The research also points to positive health outcomes from the facility. Insite is part of Vancouver Coastal Health’s continuum of care for people with addiction, mental illness and HIV/AIDS and, as a result, it has connected users of the facility with other health services.

Over a one-year period, Insite made more than 2,000 referrals, with close to 40 per cent of those to addiction counselling. People using Insite are more likely to enter a detox program, with one in five regular visitors beginning a detox program. The facility also cut down on deaths from overdoses.

Of the 500 overdoses that occurred at the site over a two-year period, none resulted in a fatality. If these overdoses happened on the street, many of these people may have died.

Other research results show:

- 7,278 unique individuals registered at Insite
- Aboriginal people made up 18 per cent of clients
- Heroin was used in 41 per cent of injections
- Morphine was used in 12 per cent of injections
- 453 overdoses resulted in no fatalities
- 4,084 referrals were made with 40 per cent of them made to addiction counselling
- Referral to withdrawal management: 368

- Referral to methadone maintenance: 2 per week
- Daily average visits: 607
- Average number of visits per month, per person: 11
- Busiest day: May 25, 2005 (933 visits in 18 hours)
- Number of nursing care interventions: 6,227
- Number of nursing interventions for abscess care: 2,055

- All totals or averages are for the two-year period from April 1, 2004 to March 31, 2006.
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^ we've done everything and spent millions in trying to rid of the Downtown Eastside's drug problems and it never really worked. The drug injection clinic is the thing that remotely works, and is being used by other cities around the world including Sydney and Amsterdam.

Here are some results from studies/research on Insite:

- Insite is leading to increased uptake into detoxification programs and addiction treatment. (New England Journal of Medicine)
- Insite has not led to an increase in drug-related crime, rates of arrest for drug trafficking, assaults and robbery were similar after the facility’s opening, and rates of vehicle break-ins/theft declined significantly. (Substance Abuse Treatment, Prevention, and Policy)
- Insite has reduced the number of people injecting in public and the amount of injection-related litter in the downtown eastside. (Canadian Medical Association Journal)
- Insite is attracting the highest-risk users – those more likely to be vulnerable to HIV infection and overdose, and who were contributing to problems of public drug use and unsafe syringe disposal. (American Journal of Preventive Medicine)
- Insite has reduced overall rates of needle sharing in the community, and among those who used the supervised injection site for some, most or all of their injections, 70% were less likely to report syringe sharing. (The Lancet)
- Nearly one-third of Insite users received information relating to safer injecting practices. Those who received help injecting from fellow injection drug users on the streets were more than twice as likely to have received safer injecting education at Insite. (The International Journal of Drug Policy)
- Insite is not increasing rates of relapse among former drug users, nor is it a negative influence on those seeking to stop drug use. (British Medical Journal)


Health Outcomes

The research also points to positive health outcomes from the facility. Insite is part of Vancouver Coastal Health’s continuum of care for people with addiction, mental illness and HIV/AIDS and, as a result, it has connected users of the facility with other health services.

Over a one-year period, Insite made more than 2,000 referrals, with close to 40 per cent of those to addiction counselling. People using Insite are more likely to enter a detox program, with one in five regular visitors beginning a detox program. The facility also cut down on deaths from overdoses.

Of the 500 overdoses that occurred at the site over a two-year period, none resulted in a fatality. If these overdoses happened on the street, many of these people may have died.

Other research results show:

- 7,278 unique individuals registered at Insite
- Aboriginal people made up 18 per cent of clients
- Heroin was used in 41 per cent of injections
- Morphine was used in 12 per cent of injections
- 453 overdoses resulted in no fatalities
- 4,084 referrals were made with 40 per cent of them made to addiction counselling
- Referral to withdrawal management: 368

- Referral to methadone maintenance: 2 per week
- Daily average visits: 607
- Average number of visits per month, per person: 11
- Busiest day: May 25, 2005 (933 visits in 18 hours)
- Number of nursing care interventions: 6,227
- Number of nursing interventions for abscess care: 2,055

- All totals or averages are for the two-year period from April 1, 2004 to March 31, 2006.
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MR.X
I agree with you! All your info is correct! But the problem is not solved!

I love numbers and you are dealing with numbers! But this problem is a people problem! Society loves to group people! Your numbers do this! And they also prove that it does not solve the problem!
We all want this problem solved! Funny thing is society is the worst enemy! King Ralph sent people on a bus to Vancouver if they lived in Albertas social safe havens!
You need more than news paper articles to deal with this problem!

That said you do more than most!
This is certainly a Canadian problem as well as a society problem and a individual problem it all starts upstairs and the federal government is sucking wind with it!
They are trying to place this problem on the city of Vancouver!
Which goes back to my individual take on this issue!
Everyone passes the buck when the feds always suck!;)
 
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