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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
here is a break down of new conctruction that would be required for my plan as you can see it is a very affordable plan that links expands and symplifies the system for about the same cost as the latest tunnel hair brain idea of a tunnel linking the eastern freeway with the western ring road at deer park. i guarantee that my system would have much greater economic benifits for the state of victoria. especialy with peak oil looming
 

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Goodwork melbourne Engineer!

Many of these links ahve been anticipated for decades. I have Broadbent's Map of "Greater Melbourne" showing proposed railway lines up the Darebin valley, & from Sandringhham to Black Rock or Beaumaris. Don't ask me to produce it.

I thought Oakleigh was a natural suburban hub ... more than 30 years ago.
 

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If you were going to extend the Alamein Line beyond East Malvern, it'd be to either Chadstone or Hughesdale/Oakleigh. Should it continue east of there, the logical corridor would be the former Rosstown Railway corridor across to Ormond (interchange concourse reuqired) and Elsternwick, though presumably cut and cover to appease the locals. From there it could continue under Elwood and St Kilda to rejoin what's now the Light Rail.

I'd also be keen to see the sort of viaduct you'd need to build to get the St Kilda line over a (now in a trench) Port Melbourne Light Rail, then alongside or possibly above Jeff Shed, over the Yarra, and forming two more new platforms at SSS (since I'd assume 14 and 15 would be country platforms for through-routed Geelong and Traralgon trains leaving 13 for Sandringham and 16 for Williamstown). It'd mean reducing that new main road with a wanky Aboriginal name on the stations western boundary down to two lanes (one each way). Transurban would be quite happy to see that happen.
 

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don't expect that do-nothing spin-king bracks to do anything.
 

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melbourne Engineer said:
here is a break down of new conctruction that would be required for my plan as you can see it is a very affordable plan that links expands and symplifies the system for about the same cost as the latest tunnel hair brain idea of a tunnel linking the eastern freeway with the western ring road at deer park. i guarantee that my system would have much greater economic benifits for the state of victoria. especialy with peak oil looming
Interesting plan. How do you plan to fit 'Melbourne East Airport' between Glen Waverley and Wantirna South?
 

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vissiman_m31 said:
Interesting plan. How do you plan to fit 'Melbourne East Airport' between Glen Waverley and Wantirna South?
Buy out ConnectEast, shut down the freeway, and convert it to get a 10km+ runway perhaps? :p
 

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Build it in the area between Berwick and Tooradin.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
there is plenty of room for an airport in the dandenong valley to the east of glen waverly in the vast open space between burwood highway and ferntree gully RD as for linking SSS To the former port melbourne and st kilda lines my map shows a tunnel that would start around the point where the new latrobe street bridge crosses the tracks then continue under WURUNDJERI WAY with 2 underground platforms under that road then continuing under the Vic police center between the world trade center and flinders wharf apartments under the river under jeff's shed then resurfacing in a fork with one tine going down to north port and the other towards st kilda. here is a map of how the entire system would tie together
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
as the rail system is incrementaly expanded as per my plan the tram system can be streemlined and made faster more efficient and more convienient with beter conections to rail stations
 

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Yardmaster said:
Many of these links ahve been anticipated for decades. I have Broadbent's Map of "Greater Melbourne" showing proposed railway lines up the Darebin valley, & from Sandringhham to Black Rock or Beaumaris. Don't ask me to produce it.
Could the maps posted in this thread be the maps you were referring to? (it's in the 12th post - scroll down a bit). You'll have to be a bit patient with the link - Railpage's servers are perpetually overloaded and failing.
 

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Not bad, but where did route 96 go? Why have trams been removed from Collins Street? Also a little mix up with trams heading for Elizabeth Street being moved to Swanston somehow?
Mostly I think its a good plan but its enough work already to add new tracks and routes why add to the cost and probably anger local residents by removing tram lines as well?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
with the improvments to train coverage and frequencies the tram routes that i have omited will become obsolete. you can always expect protest from NIMBYs who are unable to see the big picture and the greater good
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
with regard to the 96 i think people would be happier to walk an extra 250 meters to a service that is much improved and has a rail conection that will speed them to a range of popular destinations. as for collins street trams thay would go down latrobe street permanantly less confusing than only having peak hour services using latrobe street lets face it 600meters is all that separate the two streets symplicty and understandability and consistancy is the key to getting people onto PT! if people want a direct service form door to door they can drive and spend more time trying to find a park than what it would take to walk the 600meters
 

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ive been to all those top three cities!!!!!
vienna everyone uses trains its great...
geneva it told me 5 minutes to get from the airport to the centre of town
and as for zurich its all trams hardly anyone uses cars...

the big issue is this government need to make more underground lines or replace 2 car lanes with a train/tram line the later being preferable get all the people making roads to make train/tram lines melbourne claims to be european!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also read a high building study for dublin and melbourne has one of the highest petrol cosumptions per head in the world i couldnt believe it...

cars do make cities feel buzzen... the average bus speed it dublin is 5 k/m an hour

tayser you in scotland???
 

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I appreciate your point of view but I cannot see that removing services and existing lines would go down well at all with all concerned. And removing trams from some city streets will encourage more traffic rather than discourage it.

For the 96 i was mainly referring to the Nicholson Street end. It's about 4 or 5 stops from the end of the line to brunswick road and by the time the tram reaches brunswick road in morning peak there may be only a handful of seats left. This is on a 5 unit Combino. The rest of the way in people just pack in. Now im not saying that East Brunswick 96 is being underserved but that is a very well utilized route that you are offloading. All those PT users would have to go somewhere.

If they were to make the 10-15min walk over to Lygon Street that wouldnt help either because those trams are already quite full by that stage and Lygon street has no tram fairway from that part of town north. Already trams are often delayed on that road by traffic.

Please don't take my comments as plain critizism or personally or something. Most of what you have included is great including more direct route to Newport area and the north south underground link.

Also I think hell will freeze over before an airport is built anywhere closer to the city than somewhere like Cranbourne or Pakenham. New airports are built on huge amounts of land, maybe something in the vicinity of 4000 hectares (nearly 10,000 acres)? Even a single runway would need to be 3.5 to 4km long. A replacement for an airport like Essendon i think would probably be privately built anyway and they would then situate it wherever the land was cheap enough and proximity to the CBD would be of little to no concern.
 

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There's plenty of room for expansion at Tullamarine airport and it's in an ideal location, away from residential development.

In the event that Tullamarine does run out of space, there's still Avalon. A new airport in Melbourne probably won't be much closer to the CBD than Avalon anyway, unless you want to build in a green wedge and/or well as piss off everyone that lives within several km.

As for trams on Collins St, keep them. La Trobe St is six blocks away and it will be a hefty detour, especially since Collins St is likely to generate a large amount of commuters. Simplicity at the expense of convienience is a no-go. PT is good enough at the CBD anyway, it would be more attractive to commuters if they could get between home and the station/tram stop/bus stop.

If anything, the congestion of trams along Swanston St should be an example of why not to bundle all your tram routes down one street. Unless your plan includes closing La Trobe St to traffic and having quad tracks - but I'd rather get rid of the crappy mall at Bourke St and add tracks there. Or just preserve the status quo and spend money improving services on the other end of the route.
 

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melbourne Engineer said:
there is plenty of room for an airport in the dandenong valley to the east of glen waverly in the vast open space between burwood highway and ferntree gully RD as for linking SSS To the former port melbourne and st kilda lines my map shows a tunnel that would start around the point where the new latrobe street bridge crosses the tracks then continue under WURUNDJERI WAY with 2 underground platforms under that road then continuing under the Vic police center between the world trade center and flinders wharf apartments under the river under jeff's shed then resurfacing in a fork with one tine going down to north port and the other towards st kilda. here is a map of how the entire system would tie together
Plenty of space to stick it in dandenong valley? I highly doubt it. First of all, it's a valley - the topography isn't to ideal with the low hills near and around High Street Rd, and also at Burwood Hwy. Also, it would cost quite a fair bit to realign the already established high voltage transmission line.
And we all know that Eastlink is there, which further reduces the size of the space available.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
removing the lines will mean cars and trams will have less conflict st georges rd and south end of nicholson st are perfect for trams so these would host more trams so people would do the small amount of extra walking in return for a much faster and much more frequent service also my proposed fitzroy station would remove a lot of pasengers from these tram routes thus making them less crowed as they enter the inner city and thus faster
 
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