[dave8721]

Inspired by an article I read where the writer does some make believe make over for the 50+ vacant lots that were left over from the boom in the Edgewater area.

Here is a pdf of the vacant lots and the article with his vision for the area. I'm sure we could have some decent ideas for the area on here.
http://www.biscaynetimes.com/images/stories/art_0709/Edgewater_map.pdf

The article:
http://www.biscaynetimes.com/index....52:dirt-a-dreams&catid=46:features&Itemid=162

 

[QuantumX]

http://www.miamiherald.com/multimedia/business/skyline/index.html

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3372/3179610538_dbb8724cf0_o.jpg

I cropped this photo to better show the Omni/Edgewater District, among other things, and where all this stuff might have gone.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3262/3190000007_2d4633e4d7_b.jpg

Latest rendering of Element (30 Street & Biscayne Bay) if we ever see it, courtesy of Vitruvius. I copied this off the Downtown Miami Pictures thread.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3364/3190014007_b89dd85005_o.jpg

 

[spellbound]

Inspired by an article I read where the writer does some make believe make over for the 50+ vacant lots that were left over from the boom in the Edgewater area.

Here is a pdf of the vacant lots and the article with his vision for the area. I'm sure we could have some decent ideas for the area on here.
http://www.biscaynetimes.com/images/stories/art_0709/Edgewater_map.pdf

The article:
http://www.biscaynetimes.com/index....52:dirt-a-dreams&catid=46:features&Itemid=162

Good stuff, dave.

It's a shame that so many of those developments that tanked left behind all those vacant lots. I don't blame the writer for being upset...it would be an unsightly and depressing thing to have as a neighbor.

Going forward, I think Edgewater will almost inevitably thrive eventually. It's in too good a spot not to (even though I would have said the same thing 20 years ago). There's some terrific old housing stock there, even though some of it would need a TON of rehab to bring it back fully.

He had a lot of good, thoughtful ideas for the neighborhood even if some--like an independant theater---are probably very unlikely. My hope would be some level of high-rise development in the future but I'd hate to see it as yet another condo canyon, frankly. Group a few together, sure, but don't erase the character of that old and historic neighborhood. There's also professionals who might desire a lawn and a cool old house with good bones rather than a balcony and a doorman, y'know? Few neighborhoods that close to the CBD could offer as much as a revamped Edgewater.

 

[QuantumX]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3393/3180729800_195cd01fca_o.png

 

[QuantumX]

There's also professionals who might desire a lawn and a cool old house with good bones rather than a balcony and a doorman, y'know? Few neighborhoods that close to the CBD could offer as much as a revamped Edgewater.

You mean kind of like South Miami Avenue south of 15th Road?

 

[spellbound]

You mean kind of like South Miami Avenue south of 15th Road?

Yeah, the 'Roads' is a good example of that...although a lot of that housing stock is quite a bit newer. I just don't want to see Edgewater bulldozed over eventually. A mix of some towers while retaining the character of the area would be best, imo.

 

[ACTUM]

#13 looks similar to MET3

 

[305Lover]

You mean kind of like South Miami Avenue south of 15th Road?

That strip (15 St - 25 St) is probably my favorite strip of houses in the county. I love driving through it!

 

[kevinkagy]

Edgewater has an amazing stock of historic homes that most definitely needs to be preserved. IMO high-rises could be kept within the Midtown development and in and around the Arsht Center. Scattered high-rises around Edgewater and Wynwood would look bad. There's plenty of empty lots in Downtown and Brickell, so high-rises should be kept in those areas.

 

[305Lover]

^^Agreed... Having highrises scattered around the whole area will look silly and disorganized. Does anyone really like the way this looks?

 

[Roark]

Not surprisingly, I still think that Edgewater is a mess.

The streets are very narrow, the lot sizes are not nearly large enough to have a neighborhood as nice as the Roads, Bay Heights, or Spring Garden.
Biscayne Boulevard has changed dramatically, but on all those dead end narrow streets (many without enough room for sidewalks) the housing stock remains the same.
The idealist have always touted that neighborhood as up and coming, but the reality is that there are far nicer options for the well heeled.

 

[QuantumX]

Not surprisingly, I still think that Edgewater is a mess.

The streets are very narrow, the lot sizes are not nearly large enough to have a neighborhood as nice as the Roads, Bay Heights, or Spring Garden.
Biscayne Boulevard has changed dramatically, but on all those dead end narrow streets (many without enough room for sidewalks) the housing stock remains the same.
The idealist have always touted that neighborhood as up and coming, but the reality is that there are far nicer options for the well heeled.

Then what would you do with the place, Roark? I always thought the Ice2/Element lot was a great site and would have made a nice investment for the well-heeled even if they didn't want to live there.

In retrospect, it was impossible for Onyx2 to work being touted as a luxury high-rise condominium on 28th street and the bay. Driving down NE 28th street to the sales office alone was enough to kill the project.

So, what would you like to see done with Edgewater?

 

[Roark]

Then what would you do with the place, Roark? I always thought the Ice2/Element lot was a great site and would have made a nice investment for the well-heeled even if they didn't want to live there.

This was posted years ago, but back when I put the first deposit on a pre-construction condo, my friend was selling Ice. He was disgusted that I chose to buy Brickell on the River instead. I explained, jobs, bars, restaurants, already exist downtown for the exact same price. Not to mention the MetroMover serves the downtown. In 5 or ten years, things would be pretty much the same around ICE.
Without a question, the renderings of ICE were more beautiful, but it was hard to imagine that anyone in their right mind would buy in an area devoid of neighborhood amenities and close proximity to run down rental structures.
Generally speaking, well heeled people do not want to live next door to people that are not. What would I do with the area? It's not my job, but if I had to do something in Edgewater, it might be buy some old apartment building and make it a Section 8 rental building and sell it in 20 or 30 years.

 

[QuantumX]

This was posted years ago, but back when I put the first deposit on a pre-construction condo, my friend was selling Ice. He was disgusted that I chose to buy Brickell on the River instead. I explained, jobs, bars, restaurants, already exist downtown for the exact same price. Not to mention the MetroMover serves the downtown. In 5 or ten years, things would be pretty much the same around ICE.
Without a question, the renderings of ICE were more beautiful, but it was hard to imagine that anyone in their right mind would buy in an area devoid of neighborhood amenities and close proximity to run down rental structures.

Yes, Roark! But some people would have enjoyed being off the beaten path while yet still being close enough to everything and I think Ice2/Element would have been a great location for that which is why I think such projects were planned in that location to begin with, but still not desirable enough for enough "well-heeled" people.

Generally speaking, well heeled people do not want to live next door to people that are not.

Generally speaking, no!

What would I do with the area? It's not my job...

Roark, I know it's not your job, ^^ and it is not the job of any of us who comment on this web site. I was just asking your opinion and I get this. I'll know better next time.

 

[QuantumX]

This was posted years ago...

Pardon me if I wasn't a member of the website then.

 

[Horatio Caine]

If I was the mayor I'd do a total revamp of the area between AA-Arena and the Tuttle Causeway.
Preserve the fine old houses, but build new high-rises. Make it a mix of offices and condos so the area is alive 24/7.
I'd also like to se a park being built on reclaimed land along the shore with some grass and a track along the shore.
Naturally the Biscayne Blvd needs to be revamped into a wide enough street but at the same time a good looking boulevard.
I would end the whole project with a enormous new football stadium at the current Magnolia/Martell Park location. We're talking about making the I195 going in a tunnel from the I95 all the way to the island in the middle of the bay.
On top of it you would build new houses and at the water (preferably on an island) the new stadium. The area between the stadium and Biscayne Blvd would be a park and parking spaces. The park would be equipped with football fields.

You want more? Okay! on the opposite side of the bay (on Miami Beach) I'd like to build a smaller stadium (but with similair looks) that would house a MLS-franchise for Miami.
Depending on the possibility of a new shaping of the hospital I'd like to make the hospital smaller and build a mixturer of villas and condos.
Then you would open up the bay (tunnels instead of bridges) and make a really cool scenery with the waterfront stadiums lit up at night.

Crazy? Yes.
Expensive? You bet (although the new developments would pay alot of the costs)
Long time? Yes.
Extremly cool? Most definetly!

 

[Roark]

Yes, Roark! But some people would have enjoyed being off the beaten path while yet still being close enough to everything and I think Ice2/Element would have been a great location for that which is why I think such projects were planned in that location to begin with, but still not desirable enough for enough "well-heeled" people.

Quantum, those "some people" that you are speaking about, are they real people or some theoretical idea that you are imagining. If the "some people" were real people, then they would have put deposits down, the buildings would have been financed and the buildings would have been built.
The pricing of ICE and Element was the same as Brickell. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but the reality is the location is sub par, and the market has voted.
Generally speaking, well heeled people do not want to live next door to people who are not.
of course, "well heeled" is a relative term, but for the prices that ICE/Element were offered, to afford a 2 bed 2 bath apartment at ICE would have to make $150k plus. Whether or not that counts as well heeled doesn't matter. There are not ENOUGH people that earn $150k per year that would choose Edgewater over Brickell/CBD/Miami Beach/etc. to make luxury accommodations in Edgewater north of Margaret Pace Park feasible.
Just a simple fact. If I'm wrong, then there would be buildings there now...the biggest boom in the last 5 decades occurred and Edgewater is still stagnent, those buildings that you are so certain of were not built in the most favorable development market of my lifetime. The proof is in the pudding.

My specific example is this....ICE wasn't built. Element wasn't built.
Can you give a concrete example to the contrary???

Roark, I know it's not your job, ^^ and it is not the job of any of us who comment on this web site. I was just asking your opinion and I get this. I'll know better next time.

Don't be so sensitive Q....I gave you a very specific answer to your question. Edgewater is great for Section 8 housing. There is plenty of it there now. There is also student housing for those attending the fine arts college.
If you don't like or are offended by the frank answer, then don't ask the question.

 

[QuantumX]

Don't be so sensitive Q....I gave you a very specific answer to your question.

Roark, I understand what you are saying about Edgewater, but it's not your job? I know that! Roark, I don't think I'm the only one who would have viewed that as sarcasm since I would not have thought that was your job to begin with. You should know that by now from the way others have responded to other things you have said. It's not just me, and it's not that other people are so sensitivity. Maybe you need to take a good look at yourself, Roark, but there is no telling you that.

If you don't like or are offended by the frank answer, then don't ask the question.

HEY! LIKE I ALREADY SAID ABOVE! I'll know better next time.

 

[QuantumX]

BTW, guys! I had a conversation with somebody more in the know than me years ago. I asked him why he thought the high-rises planned for Edgewater didn't take off, and he said "They need to clean the place up first." In other words, they need to make the area more desirable to people who have that kind of money. As I've said before, the drive down 28th Street to the Onyx2 sales office alone was enough to kill the project. So I know this. I would have bought in Edgewater because I'm not the type who would have liked living in the middle of downtown anyway. I like being close enough to everything, but yet off the beaten and like I said, I think that is why high-rise condos were planned for Edgewater to begin with. But as I also said, there just weren't enough people like that, especially if the price difference wasn't much different from Brickell.

I saw Edgewater as becoming possibly more like Greenwich Village in New York with even taller towers where successful artists would live in close proximity to each other with the Performing Art Center to the south, and the Design District to the northwest and midtown to the west. I probably would have been a pioneer living in Edgewater say if Ice2/Element had been built and I could have afforded to live there just as I was a pioneer on South Beach decades ago, but this is my vision for Edgewater.

 

[Roark]

In other words, they need to make the area more desirable to people who have that kind of money.

Or, eliminate all the other choices. Since eliminating all the other choices isn't an option, then, people with "that kind of money" will chose the other options.
The people are free to chose to make that neighborhood more desireable.
Until the residents and land owners make that choice, Edgewater will remain what it was 10 years ago, what it was during the most active development cycle in our lifetimes, and what it is today. A nice working class and low income neighborhood with cars parked in the very small front yards, and extremely narrow streets.
Although, you may have wanted to live in ICE Q...I actually looked at prices, compared them to other choices, and chose, like thousands of others to purchase elsewhere. It was glowingly clear that Edgewater would not be able to compete back then, and now that the story has been played out, it is glaringly obvious that not enough people demanded to live in Edgewater at $400 per square foot.