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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
(Since you asked, Yugoboy Xox) The city of Vukovar, Croatia. Completely destroyed and ethnically cleansed during the war, it is now a city rebuilding. Progress has been, in some ways, slow - and in others very fast. Investment in Vukovar has been heavily nationalistic, as was the case in Bosnia-Herzegovina as well. Catholic churches are rising faster than hospitals, schools, and so on. Vukovar is, for many Croatians and Bosnians, the "first". It was during, and because of the siege of Vukovar, that the people of Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina were fully convinced that Slobodan Milosevic, and his army's interests were not to preserve Yugoslavia - but instead to destroy it, in every sense that a multiethnic country can be destroyed. Up until that point, there were people in Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina who supported the idea of preserving Yugoslavia through force if necessary. Vukovar is a "Siege Sister" of Sarajevo and Dubrovnik. The three cities share several cultural events (mainly art exhibitions), and so on, during the year.

One of the most famous pictures of the war in the former Yugoslavia was taken in Vukovar in 1991. When the city fell to Serbian Nationalist forces, the non-Serbian civilians living there were ethnically cleansed. A reporter in the city at the time captured the exodus and it became, for many Croatians and Bosnians, an inspiration never to give up:


And now, on with this quaint, ancient Croatian city...




























 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·

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Thanks Mila! :)

I have learned about Vukovar from friends, internet, and Books. I heard countless times about how the city was destroyed, and from both serbian and Croatian sides are actually different. I do not want to get into that, so I am glad to see the city is moving on, slowly but shurely like all of Yugoslavia it will become what it once was. :) Now I am interested in seeing pictures of the City before the war hehe. Since I have seen many of these pictures, but thanks for posting it, so everyone knows about the city, and what has happend there. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
^ Most of what I know about the city is certainly legend, Yugoboy. The disagreement between Croatians and Serbians when it comes to Vukovar is actually more simple that you might think. They do not agree on who actually commanded the army to take Vukovar, and while the Croatians view it as an international war between two independent states - and attempt by Serbia-Montenegro to expand its borders at the expense of Croatian civilians; the Serbians view it is a civil war, within the framework of the Yugoslav federation, carried out to protect Vukovar's small Serbian minority from Croatian nationalists.

It's not as complicated as in many other places. :D Oddly enough.

I view it as both. In 1991, Serbian moderates had not yet been weeded out of the Yugoslav People's Army, thus a significant portion of the soldiers involved in the siege of Vukovar must have believed they were protecting Serbian civilians. Propaganda certainly added to this - you've seen the News in Bosnia-Herzegovina thread, Serbian media is claiming even today that Bosniaks are dressing up as KKK members and terrorizing Serbian suburbs. ;) So you can imagine what was said back then. I do accept the view that it was a war between two independent nations.

There was also, most certainly, genuine fear among the Serbian minority. To be suddenly citizens of an independent Croatian state, which had not existed since the brutal days of the Croatian Nazis, must have been terrifying.

In my opinion, the Serbian Nationalists took what was, in many ways, a legitimately dangerous situation and exploited it to achieve their goals - at the expense not only of the Croatian people, but of the Croatian Serb people as well. I see it as a tragedy on all sides in which the fears of moderates were exploited to achieve the goals of a nationalist minority, one that could never have succeeded without fooling the majority into following them.
 

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Mila said:
^ Most of what I know about the city is certainly legend, Yugoboy. The disagreement between Croatians and Serbians when it comes to Vukovar is actually more simple that you might think. They do not agree on who actually commanded the army to take Vukovar, and while the Croatians view it as an international war between two independent states - and attempt by Serbia-Montenegro to expand its borders at the expense of Croatian civilians; the Serbians view it is a civil war, within the framework of the Yugoslav federation, carried out to protect Vukovar's small Serbian minority from Croatian nationalists.

It's not as complicated as in many other places. :D Oddly enough.

I view it as both. In 1991, Serbian moderates had not yet been weeded out of the Yugoslav People's Army, thus a significant portion of the soldiers involved in the siege of Vukovar must have believed they were protecting Serbian civilians. Propaganda certainly added to this - you've seen the News in Bosnia-Herzegovina thread, Serbian media is claiming even today that Bosniaks are dressing up as KKK members and terrorizing Serbian suburbs. ;) So you can imagine what was said back then. I do accept the view that it was a war between two independent nations.

There was also, most certainly, genuine fear among the Serbian minority. To be suddenly citizens of an independent Croatian state, which had not existed since the brutal days of the Croatian Nazis, must have been terrifying.

In my opinion, the Serbian Nationalists took what was, in many ways, a legitimately dangerous situation and exploited it to achieve their goals - at the expense not only of the Croatian people, but of the Croatian Serb people as well. I see it as a tragedy on all sides in which the fears of moderates were exploited to achieve the goals of a nationalist minority, one that could never have succeeded without fooling the majority into following them.
Well put. :cheers:
 

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Well said Mila, I think it's important Vukovar, Sarajevo, Dubrovnik, Belgrade, Banja Luka, Zagreb and other Cities all move on from their past, which thank god.. it seems they all are!

Any Ways, I found some older pictures of Vukovar, and it looked very charming before the war. :)









 

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Nice little town. How many people, 40.000?
 

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Vukovar, CROATIA

Vukovar is a city in Croatia, population 20,301 (2001). It is located at the confluence of the Vuka river into the Danube and is the center of the Vukovar-Srijem county.

Vukovar is the largest Croatian town and river port on the Danube. Its economy is based on farming, viticulture, livestock breeding, textile and food-processing industry. However, the city has been gravely impacted by the Yugoslav wars when the Serbian troops laid siege to it for three months and the shelling destroyed the majority of buildings in the city.

Among a number of attractive buildings, severely damaged in the recent war, the most interesting are the castle of the Eltz family from 18th century, Baroque buildings in the centre of the town, the Franciscan monastery, the parish church of St. James, the Orthodox church of St. Nicholas, the birth house of the Nobel prize winner Lavoslav Ružička, etc.

Outside the town, on the banks of the Danube toward Ilok, lies a notable archaeological site, Vučedol. The ritual vessel called the Vučedol Dove (vučedolska golubica) is considered the symbol of Vukovar. Vučedol is also a well-known excursion destination, frequented by anglers and bathers, especially the beautiful sand beach on Orlov Otok (Eagle's Island).

Sports and recreational opportunities are provided at the attractive confluence of the Vuka river into the Danube, on the promenades along the Danube and maintained beaches. Bathing is possible in the summer months. Angling is very popular both on the Vuka and the Danube (catfish, perch, carp, pike, sterlet).

Dunav (other side is Serbia)















Borovo Naselje (and Vukovar further away) from the sky



General Pictures of Vukovar



Center


Pravoslavna Crkva (Serbian Orthodox Church) after the war


now after restoration


Catholic Chapel


Catholic Church


(radnicki dom, damaged during the war, now being restored)


Pictures of the Old and the New








infamous water tower



I will update this thread with newer pictures as I get them this summer. There are alot of very modern looking buildings springing up in Vukovar which I hope to have pictures of very soon :D. Also, I would say Vukovar now easily has the best standard of roads in Slavonia, pretty much every road has now been renewed.

also, check out this wikipedia page for more pictures and info...

http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vukovar
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
^ I'm sure the mods can move my pictures to your thread, or vice versa, if you want. :) I see you have pictures of the Serbian Orthodox church and other things I don't have, so it'll be good to get a rounded impression of the city from the combined threads. :)
 

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mladen said:
I will update this thread with newer pictures as I get them this summer. There are alot of very modern looking buildings springing up in Vukovar which I hope to have pictures of very soon :D. Also, I would say Vukovar now easily has the best standard of roads in Slavonia, pretty much every road has now been renewed.
Seems like Vukovar recovers pretty fast:)
As for the roads in Slavonia, you guys should really renew the road from Sl. brod - Gunja; in the Gunja area it's horrible:D. But generally spoken things, especially road infrastructure gets better and better in Croatia :eek:kay:

Majevcan
 

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Nice city, they are doing a good job rebuilding it. Is there any bridges that connect Vukovar to Serbia proper?
 
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