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Wolf in sheep's clothing
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Canals, pipelines, aqueducts, tunnels and other things that transport water, dams and other water storages, rivers, creeks, desalinisation plants etc.



As of 28-Oct-2010 Melbourne water storages are 49.8% full.
 

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Greater Brisbane
• Wivenhoe Dam currently sits at 100% capacity, no change from last week.
• North Pine Dam currently sits at 99.7% capacity, down 0.3% from last week.
• Somerset Dam is currently at 100% capacity, up 0.1% from last week.
• Leslie Harrison currently sits at 99.7% capacity, down 0.3% from last week.
• Lake Kurwongbah currently sits at 99.5% capacity, down 0.5% from last week.

Gold Coast
• Hinze Dam currently sits at 100%, no change from last week.
• Little Nerang Dam currently sits at 100%, no change from last week.

Sunshine Coast
• Lake Baroon has currently sits at 100%, no change from last week.
• Ewen Maddock Dam sits at 100%, no change from last week.
• Cooloolabin Dam currently sits at 100%, no change from last week.
• Lake MacDonald is currently at 100% capacity, no change from last week.
• Wappa Dam is currently at 100% capacity, no change from last week.

Combined SEQ total: 100%
 

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Also, almost all the dams in the rural and regional VIC areas are now at or near 100%.

I remember a few years back, Bracks and Thwaites insisting "that dams don't create water", "it'll never rain again" etc while trying to justify the $5BN, electricity sucking desal plant. "Dam" was considered a very dirty word, and not even considered as an option. But look now, they're all nearly full. Reckless idiots.

We and future generations will now pay very, very dearly for this green lunacy.
 

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Maglev Believer
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Pretty much every dam in Queensland is full atm. Except for the ones around Toowoomba, is does not want to rain up there. Also to get a bit technical, Wivenhoe is at like 102% capacity, and Somerset Dam at like 101% capacity, using their flood mitigation storage areas.

Apart from that, this really isn't Transport. Maybe move to the Skybar???
 

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"Dam" was considered a very dirty word, and not even considered as an option. But look now, they're all nearly full. Reckless idiots.

We and future generations will now pay very, very dearly for this green lunacy.
Identical situation with QLD. Makes me mad.
 

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Also, almost all the dams in the rural and regional VIC areas are now at or near 100%.

I remember a few years back, Bracks and Thwaites insisting "that dams don't create water", "it'll never rain again" etc while trying to justify the $5BN, electricity sucking desal plant. "Dam" was considered a very dirty word, and not even considered as an option. But look now, they're all nearly full. Reckless idiots.

We and future generations will now pay very, very dearly for this green lunacy.
D'ont let the facts get in the way of partisan views......

Latest (yesterday) on line capacity data for the largest dams with data for some as they were (12 months ago%)

Rocklands 21% full (5%)
Bellfield 55%full (34%)
Thompson 32.8% full
Cardinia 49.7% full
Melbourne system 49.8% full
Dartmouth 48.57% full (30.57%)
Hume 98.93% full (4.6%)
Eildon 63.67% full (33.15%)
Eppalock 69.89% full (8.2%)
Cairn Curran 90.72% full (6.52%)
 

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Most of South Australia (including Adelaide) has received the best rainfall in years.

Our Desalination Plant is nearly complete and water restrictions will be lifted on the 1st December 2010.

Greater Adelaide dam levels
Barossa - 93%
South Para - 98%
Little Para - 45%
Milbrook - 96%
Warren - 100%
Kangarooo Creek - 98%
Hope Valley - 72%
Mt Bold - 96% (largest)
Happy Valley - 83%
Myponga - 92%

Total water capacity is sitting at 89%
 

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D'ont let the facts get in the way of partisan views......

Latest (yesterday) on line capacity data for the largest dams with data for some as they were (12 months ago%)

Rocklands 21% full (5%)
Bellfield 55%full (34%)
Thompson 32.8% full
Cardinia 49.7% full
Melbourne system 49.8% full
Dartmouth 48.57% full (30.57%)
Hume 98.93% full (4.6%)
Eildon 63.67% full (33.15%)
Eppalock 69.89% full (8.2%)
Cairn Curran 90.72% full (6.52%)
So the numbers back up whay I say. Importantly, the huge dams (Hume, Eildon etc.) are fast filling or full. Either way, a huge improvement, thanks to rainfall and storage capacity.
 

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Like whatever....
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Greater Brisbane
• Wivenhoe Dam currently sits at 100% capacity, no change from last week.
• North Pine Dam currently sits at 99.7% capacity, down 0.3% from last week.
• Somerset Dam is currently at 100% capacity, up 0.1% from last week.
• Leslie Harrison currently sits at 99.7% capacity, down 0.3% from last week.
• Lake Kurwongbah currently sits at 99.5% capacity, down 0.5% from last week.

Gold Coast
• Hinze Dam currently sits at 100%, no change from last week.
• Little Nerang Dam currently sits at 100%, no change from last week.

Sunshine Coast
• Lake Baroon has currently sits at 100%, no change from last week.
• Ewen Maddock Dam sits at 100%, no change from last week.
• Cooloolabin Dam currently sits at 100%, no change from last week.
• Lake MacDonald is currently at 100% capacity, no change from last week.
• Wappa Dam is currently at 100% capacity, no change from last week.

Combined SEQ total: 100%

They should let some extra water out of the bolded dams before the wet season hits. We are due for cyclones this year and if a cyclone hits SEQ and drops 400 or 500mls then Brisbane will flood. Those dams were origionally built to help protect Brisbane from another 1974 event.
 

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Champagne Socialist
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So the numbers back up whay I say. Importantly, the huge dams (Hume, Eildon etc.) are fast filling or full. Either way, a huge improvement, thanks to rainfall and storage capacity.
What do you do in 15 years time when Melbourne's got another 1 million or so people living here? Make another dam somewhere or build a desal plant in 15 years time (in 15 years time dollars)?

$5billion is a big price tag for water infrastructure now, but it'll be chump change in 15 years when there's more demand for water.
 

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QUEENSLANDER!!!
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They should let some extra water out of the bolded dams before the wet season hits. We are due for cyclones this year and if a cyclone hits SEQ and drops 400 or 500mls then Brisbane will flood. Those dams were origionally built to help protect Brisbane from another 1974 event.
Those figures are 100% water storage i.e. does not count flood storage. wivenhoe reached 126% earlier this month, but was nowhere near its full flood storage which is close to 250%. somerset is about 150%. the 100% storage level is designed to provide maximum water storage, but allow for significant flood immunity for brisbane (not to say that a massive rain event wouldn't exceed this, but it would be massive!!)
 

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Why have we been sitting on our hands so long?

The next major dam should have been built years ago, at the site reserved for it, years ago, for a fraction of the cost of desal.

The upcoming increases in water rates charges, will show what an overpriced white elephant the desal plant is.
 

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LowFlyingGoose
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467 Posts
Also, almost all the dams in the rural and regional VIC areas are now at or near 100%.

I remember a few years back, Bracks and Thwaites insisting "that dams don't create water", "it'll never rain again" etc while trying to justify the $5BN, electricity sucking desal plant. "Dam" was considered a very dirty word, and not even considered as an option. But look now, they're all nearly full. Reckless idiots.

We and future generations will now pay very, very dearly for this green lunacy.
http://www.theage.com.au/environment/water-issues/millions-wasted-on-farm-water-20100607-xqs7.html
Don't let science and fact get in the way of your faith.

You could dam only 1 River in Victoria and get anything out of it, The Mitchell. What they say is perfectly true, building a dam does not make it rain more. The Mitchells waters won't get to the city though, the only change that will make is giving Gippsland irrigation more water to replace what the Power Stations take from the LaTrobe and Thompson. So do any of you Dam building geniuses have a river in Victoria left to damn because I think that is every single one them.

Conversely no Green has given the Desal plant a green light and tick of approval. Its a waste of money, a waste of energy in its current design, the contract is criminal plutocratic cronyism gone mad and it is going to cost staggering amounts of money to feed it energy and keep the company happy.

There were better alternatives for the short term. (Killing 2 birds with one stone)

You get rid of coal fired power stations and get 40% of the Thompson back. The coal plants use staggering amounts of water, almost all the water in the Latrobe dam is used for them. The 2 mines use a constant sprinkler system as well adding to the toll.

Gas fired plants (Co generation - Gas turbine + exhaust coolant steam turbines) are 55% efficient. Coal plants are only 25% efficient. Gas plants can cool the water for reuse and keep it sealed. The Coal plants could do some things too but they are too arrogant to be fucked with it.

Reclaimed sewer water using solar energy ONLY is one of the more better options but Labor / Libs don't have the imagination or tenancity to tackle the issues. Its cleaner than tap water and Werribee could be tapped up to the Wimmera irrigation system.

Farmers

Farmers are great, they do it hard but they hit their heads if you don't tell them there is a tree in front.

Most farmers bitch and moan about anything they can and water is no different. Never have they thought about how they farm, what they farm and how they store water. The farmers are their own worst enemy expecting city bureaucrats to solve their sooking while the CSIRO, Greens, Organic Backyarders and every farmer in history has already shown them how to solve the problem. They don't bloody listen and they can't be fucked thinking for themselves, they just want to sook to government for more stuff whatever that 'stuff' might be. Even Arab and Israeli farmers have better luck in even worse conditions. Anyone can see for themselves on any farm in Victoria why those guys loose bloody fantastic amounts of water to something simple like a god damned breeze.

Building a damn is not going to solve climate change, that drought that peaked in 2009 will be back again in just 3 to 4 years. The weather patterns are changing, storms are going to be much much more energetic, damaging and violent - think about it! The Earth is a closed system, there are only 2 things that leave here, heat and Hydrogen gas. Now we have put a nice little dooner on the joint and that means more energy. More energy into water = more energy out. Weather is a action of that energy and climate is the overall result. Only a dip shit or an American Politician doof bag would be stupid enough to deny it. Varyabilty goes to extreme and Australia is smack in the middle of the sub tropical highs. We are going to be fooked on by mother nature and the time for correcting it passed us by in the 90's...

Sit back and enjoy the ride, its going to get really bumpy!

Homes and people.

Water tanks should be mandatory.
Every home should have 15,000 liters storage but 10,000 will do.
Underground concrete tanks are cheap ($2 to 2.40 per liter) and above ground cheaper. The average family could simply have underground storage, ground source heat pump solar hot water and solar PV, insulated walls. floors, ceilings, double glazed windows and never pay an energy / water bill again and its not expensive, pays for itself in 10 to 12 years max and yet no one fucking bothers but instead winges and whines about how everything cost so much money.

DO YOU WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO WIPE YOUR ASS TOO?


Environmental flows on rivers ADD to the total of water supplied. The wetlands clean the water, it soaks into the ground and then you will never guess where it goes.

So what did the government do wrong?
They made the savings scheme a big fluffed up front full of bullshit that did nothing. The open channels are still open channels lined with rubber. So what, big deal. The rubber sheeting cost 12 times more than a simple pipe. Took 40 times longer to do and cost in labor some 1000 times more.

They had guys hot ironing the welds by hand on their knees on channels 2 meters deep and 10 meters wide, the welds were every 10 meters.

A pipe in the ground would lose 0 - zero - nada water.

http://www.theage.com.au/environment/water-issues/millions-wasted-on-farm-water-20100607-xqs7.html

If every home had purchased a $5000 liter tank and hooked it up to the laundry and loo we would not need a desal plant, it would have put some 1400 people into permanent long term work and saved the state some 30 billion dollars.

So build your own bloody dam and be a little bit responsible FOR YOUR OWN LIFE and WHAT YOU USE.
If you are a farmer there is mega tonnes of literature and science online to sift through. You know bloody well what to do but you probably don't do anything because uncle Government has not given you the pat on your back and golden handshake. Man up, get off your ass and do your own research.

Oh, that dam for the cows you have, why is it siting in the open exposed and has a dirt bottom? That orchid you have, row upon row of trees on open ground? Where is the water going there? Stop sooking! Fucking fix it!
 

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The Mitchell River site, for the next dam for Melb, was set aside, for that purpose around the time of completion of the Thompson Dam in the early 1980s. That wouldn't have happened if it wasn't feasible. Bracks made it into a national park in the 1990s, effectively locking it up to appease the green vote.

Look out the window. The weather moves in cycles. Droughts are a part of life here, always have been, always will be. What we need to do is manage the droughts and that means water storage. Not a desal plant at many times the cost to build AND run.

While I strongly agree that efficiencies in many areas should be improved (and I HAVE put my money where my mouth is in this regard), I glaze over once the climate change worshipping rants begin.

One day you will grow up, pay tax and realise what these fuckwits have done.
 

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LowFlyingGoose
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I glaze over once the climate change worshipping rants begin.
Its not a rant, its a stated fact in principal regarding the first, second and third law of thermal dynamics in closed energy system. You can't argue against it and its so freaking obvious.

If you don't know how the weather/climate system works then I suggest you find out and quickly.

Thermodynamics Which is a part of the Coriolis effect actuated by rotation and tilt that drives our Climate which produces localised Weather which is attenuated, effected, controlled by trade winds and air movement. The rain we get is a product of the first and second law of Thermodynamics when water evaporates or is expired it rises to the Tropopause where it exchanges heat energy forming ice crystals through a process known as phase transition which is an action of the second law of thermal dynamics, hot stuff releases energy to cold stuff which in this case is freezing cold air. So now that we understand energy, Coriolis and phase transition you can then understand what a low pressure system is, and what part thedew point has to play in making rain along with the Tropopause and pressure gradients which mechanically alter the dew point and convective currents rate and intesity. The heat exchange takes place and an equilibrium is then sought. The rain cools the air and surface below it while the heat is passed on. This heat returns in a reverse spin high pressure system as air riding spirals up then returns using the same spiral force, it is simply the inverse. (Rains in Queensland = dry in Victoria though not the rule). The drought is part of this as is the big wet. Victoria is wet through an air mass attempting equilibrium originating from the South China Sea, Greater Western Pacific and Timor Sea. Its pushing warm humid air down from NW to SE trying to cool the oceans. 2 years ago this stream did not exist. In 2 years I expect it will lose its energy and its ability to function again.

So, I hope you all read all that and the links provided, think and absorb it. Now you know what "climate" is and how it works, now multiply the energy and imagine what you get out. What happens to your kettle when its boiled and you turn the heat up....


One day you will grow up, pay tax and realise what these fuckwits have done.
In not building the dam they made the right choice. The Mitchell is going to be a first rate national park soon, the place is beautiful and camping and fishing in one of only 4 remaining wild rivers is excellent.

Ive been paying taxes for 25 years, one day you might understand that having a dam full of water does not quench the thirst of factional dribble and media spin. You can't fill a dam and a city and expect everything to remain hunky dory, the numbers will tell you clearly its an endless cycle until one supply runs out = rivers, we don't have enough of them.
Melbourne needs to recycle its water, farmers need to get smart or perish and politicians and the departments that prop them up need to start thinking outside the cubicle.

As for paying tax, well you really need to need to look at what you said. If you buy a water tank you save 10% gst on your water bills, if you buy a PV kit you save 10% on your electricity bills and if you get a geo coupled heat pump solar hot water kit you save 10% gst on your gas bills - getting the picture?

Why recycle and not desal?

recycled water uses the water we already have, its also a higher temperature and it can through a natural process be filtered to a more pure state than sea water BEFORE you pressurise and or use reverse osmosis. Using the water we have means no impact on the environment, enables scalability, security, much lower energy consumption, can be simply, cheaply 100% renewable powered (Solar, wind, Syn Gas, Methane from sewer sludge and gases). Can be pumped ONCE to a high point and use natural gravity from there. Can be fed to all of Victoria using Werribee, Lilydale, Currum and Barwon. 100gl in = 100gl out.

The Desal plant is an entirely different beast using NEW water that is full of salt and hard compounds (non organic) and filter clogging - ionic minerals that don't exist in sewer water.

The cleaner argument is moot. Not even the shell of a virus can pass through osmosis so larger chemicals, organics and fatty acids like hormones, steroids and prions are cleaned out.

Fish **** in water and you are drinking it and it has the bleached remains of a billion dead insects..

Water exports - we export 40% of our water in food and materials
The rest is 100% is broken down like this..

  • 9% domestic
  • 26% indusrty
  • everything else 65% is farming and agriculture
 

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Wolf in sheep's clothing
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Melbourne's water storages are 50.1% full as of 31-Oct-2010



Now that we have more water in storage, and the desalination plant is coming, flows taken from the rivers to supplement drinking water supplies during the drought are now being returned (released from dams).

A total of 56 billion litres has now been returned to the Yarra (37 billion) and Thomson (19 billion) rivers.

July 2010 – Return of 22 billion litres p.a.
October 2010 – Return of 24 billion litres p.a


http://www.melbournewater.com.au/content/news_and_events/whats_new/whats_new/20101025.asp
 

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Its not a rant, its a stated fact in principal regarding the first, second and third law of thermal dynamics in closed energy system. You can't argue against it and its so freaking obvious.

If you don't know how the weather/climate system works then I suggest you find out and quickly.

Thermodynamics Which is a part of the Coriolis effect actuated by rotation and tilt that drives our Climate which produces localised Weather which is attenuated, effected, controlled by trade winds and air movement. The rain we get is a product of the first and second law of Thermodynamics when water evaporates or is expired it rises to the Tropopause where it exchanges heat energy forming ice crystals through a process known as phase transition which is an action of the second law of thermal dynamics, hot stuff releases energy to cold stuff which in this case is freezing cold air. So now that we understand energy, Coriolis and phase transition you can then understand what a low pressure system is, and what part thedew point has to play in making rain along with the Tropopause and pressure gradients which mechanically alter the dew point and convective currents rate and intesity. The heat exchange takes place and an equilibrium is then sought. The rain cools the air and surface below it while the heat is passed on. This heat returns in a reverse spin high pressure system as air riding spirals up then returns using the same spiral force, it is simply the inverse. (Rains in Queensland = dry in Victoria though not the rule). The drought is part of this as is the big wet. Victoria is wet through an air mass attempting equilibrium originating from the South China Sea, Greater Western Pacific and Timor Sea. Its pushing warm humid air down from NW to SE trying to cool the oceans. 2 years ago this stream did not exist. In 2 years I expect it will lose its energy and its ability to function again.

So, I hope you all read all that and the links provided, think and absorb it. Now you know what "climate" is and how it works, now multiply the energy and imagine what you get out. What happens to your kettle when its boiled and you turn the heat up....



In not building the dam they made the right choice. The Mitchell is going to be a first rate national park soon, the place is beautiful and camping and fishing in one of only 4 remaining wild rivers is excellent.

Ive been paying taxes for 25 years, one day you might understand that having a dam full of water does not quench the thirst of factional dribble and media spin. You can't fill a dam and a city and expect everything to remain hunky dory, the numbers will tell you clearly its an endless cycle until one supply runs out = rivers, we don't have enough of them.
Melbourne needs to recycle its water, farmers need to get smart or perish and politicians and the departments that prop them up need to start thinking outside the cubicle.

As for paying tax, well you really need to need to look at what you said. If you buy a water tank you save 10% gst on your water bills, if you buy a PV kit you save 10% on your electricity bills and if you get a geo coupled heat pump solar hot water kit you save 10% gst on your gas bills - getting the picture?

Why recycle and not desal?

recycled water uses the water we already have, its also a higher temperature and it can through a natural process be filtered to a more pure state than sea water BEFORE you pressurise and or use reverse osmosis. Using the water we have means no impact on the environment, enables scalability, security, much lower energy consumption, can be simply, cheaply 100% renewable powered (Solar, wind, Syn Gas, Methane from sewer sludge and gases). Can be pumped ONCE to a high point and use natural gravity from there. Can be fed to all of Victoria using Werribee, Lilydale, Currum and Barwon. 100gl in = 100gl out.

The Desal plant is an entirely different beast using NEW water that is full of salt and hard compounds (non organic) and filter clogging - ionic minerals that don't exist in sewer water.

The cleaner argument is moot. Not even the shell of a virus can pass through osmosis so larger chemicals, organics and fatty acids like hormones, steroids and prions are cleaned out.

Fish **** in water and you are drinking it and it has the bleached remains of a billion dead insects..

Water exports - we export 40% of our water in food and materials
The rest is 100% is broken down like this..

  • 9% domestic
  • 26% indusrty
  • everything else 65% is farming and agriculture
Well said. That Jobeli has been drinking the Kool-aid that Andrew Bolt has been making.

I place (through my vote) a stronger value on the preservation of the Mitchell River, where I spent much of my uni days, than I do on whether Jobeli gets to spray drinking water on his car or garden, or any of another 1000 frivolous uses.
 

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I place (through my vote) a stronger value on the preservation of the Mitchell River, where I spent much of my uni days, than I do on whether Jobeli gets to spray drinking water on his car or garden, or any of another 1000 frivolous uses.
+1. The environment shouldn't have to pay any further for our exessive consumption and waste. We we run out of rivers eventually, so why not keep what we have left and moving to the alternatives now? Dams can't be built for ever and ever. And we'll be getting rid of coal eventually anyway, why not pump the billions of dollars from the desal plant into encouraging renewable energy projects? Thousands of jobs, expand the industry, reduce emissions and save water.. Dams= shortsighted.
 
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