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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As the Delaware Valley prepares for the Live 10,000 celebration (that means that the Phillies are approaching 10,000 losses in franchise history, and will become the first team to reach this milestone), many people around here wonder what things could have been like. The Philadelphia A's moved to Kansas City for the 1955 season. The A's, however, were Philadelphia's primary baseball team, and the Phillies were "the other team". This would be like the Red Sox moving from Boston and the Braves remaining in Boston up to the present.

What would everything be like if the Athletics had stayed? There are two scenarios to look at: 1), if the A's stayed and the Phillies moved to Kansas CIty or another city; and 2), if the A's stayed and the Phillies kept both of their baseball teams until the present.
 

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Buffalo's Worst Nightmare
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The A's probably would've had a long history of failure instead of championships.
 

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some people say that there is a curse on the Phillies ever since the heigh limit was lifted nd buildings were built above city hall a curse came on the Phillies Ive only heard it from some people though...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
some people say that there is a curse on the Phillies ever since the heigh limit was lifted nd buildings were built above city hall a curse came on the Phillies Ive only heard it from some people though...
Actually, that curse applies to all four Philadelphia teams. No team has won a championship since construction of One Liberty Place, the building that broke the gentleman's agreement, began in early 1984; the last team to win were the Sixers in May 1983, just before the proposal to break the agreement was announced, if I'm correct.

It has come to a point where some people actually want the statue moved ot the top of the Comcast Center when it is finished so that Billy has an unobstructed view of the city. A petition was made, and I think the creator and signees are only half-joking about this.
http://www.petitiononline.com/PENN07/petition.html

 

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Holy Crap and I thought Bostonians were bad! :lol:

This "Live 10,000 Celebration" - is this really a celebration, or just a low-key tongue-in-cheek sort of commemoration among Philly sports diehards? (Sort of like people, particularly he himself, celebrate Brian Kingman as being the last 20-loss pitcher in MLB?)

I like the tee...
 

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Curses are just superstitions. Does any really think that Boston Red Sox had a curse after loosing Babe Ruth to the NY Yankees? Did 9/11 bring a curse on the NY Yankees after they hadn't won a World Series since 2000? Saying that the the Philadelphia Phillies are cursed b/c of 1 Liberty Pl is nothing but a superstition. The reason the A's left Philly was b/c the new owner chose to move them hence it was just business.
 

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Philly's legacy of losing goes back far before 1984. Without looking it up, I would bet Philly is near the bottom if you calculate championships per seasons played for the big 4 sports.
 

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Here is a look at Philly's record of frustration compared to some other nearby cities.
This is going back to 1901, the start of the modern era in baseball.

Eagles 3 titles. 74 seasons

A's 5 titles 54 seasons

Phils 1 title 106 seasons

Flyers 2 titles 40 seasons

Sixers/Warriors 44/16 4 titles

334 seasons 15 titles


One title per every 22.27 seasons.



Cleveland

Indians 106 seasons 2 titles

Cavs 37 seasons 0 titles

Browns/rams 70 seasons 9 titles


Barons 2 seasons 0 titles

215 seasons 11 titles


One title per 19.55 seasons.

One title every 30.14 years if the Browns 4 titles in the AAFC are disregarded.

Pittsburgh


Pirates 106 seasons 5 titles (also had 2 NL penants in 1901 and 1902 prior to the inception of the World Series.)

Steelers 74 seasons 5 titles

Penguins 40 seasons 2 titles

Pipers/condors 4 seasons 1 title


224 seasons 13 titles

One title per every 17.23 seasons


New york

Yankees 106 seasons 26 titles

Mets 45 seasons 2 titles

Giants 57 seasons 5 titles

Dodgers 57 season 1 title

Football Giants 81 seasons 6 titles

Jets 47 seasons 1 title

Football Dodgers 17 seasons 0 titles

Knicks 61 seasons 2 titles

Nets 8 seasons 2 titles

Rangers 81 seasons 4 cups

Islanders 35 seasons 4 cups



595 seasons 53 titles

One title per every 11.23 seasons.
 

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The only thing that would have changed in Philly if the A's stayed there is the city would never have gotten to see John Kruk play :eek:hno:
 

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This is almost like saying what Brooklyn would be like if the Dodgers stayed and never left for LA.
 

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Perhpas the A's left a curse in KC, as well.

A's/ Royals 50 years, 1 title
Chiefs 44 years, 1 title
Kings 14 years, 0 titles
Scouts 2 years, 0 titles

Thats 1 title per every 55 seasons- more than twice as bad as Philly.
 

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Perhpas the A's left a curse in KC, as well.

A's/ Royals 50 years, 1 title
Chiefs 44 years, 1 title
Kings 14 years, 0 titles
Scouts 2 years, 0 titles

Thats 1 title per every 55 seasons- more than twice as bad as Philly.

I only looked at the cities that had baseball from the turn of the century. There are plenty of cities that got teams later on that have bad records.

Houston 2
KC 2
Seattle 1
San Diego 1
New Orleans 0
Atlanta 1
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The Phillies lost AGAIN last night. The bullpen blew a lead Friday night in typical fashion: the great Alonzo Alfonseca gave up a game-tying home run to straight-away center field with 2 outs and 2 strikes.

We are now up to 9,999 losses.

Holy Crap and I thought Bostonians were bad! :lol:

This "Live 10,000 Celebration" - is this really a celebration, or just a low-key tongue-in-cheek sort of commemoration among Philly sports diehards? (Sort of like people, particularly he himself, celebrate Brian Kingman as being the last 20-loss pitcher in MLB?)

I like the tee...
To most people, like myself, the 10,000 loss is an opportunity to boo the team like they've never been booed before. I actually hope that they win today so that they come home and lose #10,000 at home so that everyone in the organization, particularly ownership and management, hears how sick we are of a mediocre team getting put on the field year after year after year.

Howard Eskin (also known as "Wolfman" or "The Burger King") is apparently trying to get people to cheer or some other stupid thing when they lose #10,000. Any recognition in a good light of this loss is a gisgrace. Of course, I don't expect any less from a complete idiot like Eskin.
 

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Isn't it safe to say that Philadelphia's attachment to the A's was far less than the attachment that other cities (StL to the Cardinals, Boston to the Red Sox) to the team that stayed?

I don't think Philly as ever defined by the A's the way StL is/was to the Cards and Bos is/was to the Red Sox.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Isn't it safe to say that Philadelphia's attachment to the A's was far less than the attachment that other cities (StL to the Cardinals, Boston to the Red Sox) to the team that stayed?

I don't think Philly as ever defined by the A's the way StL is/was to the Cards and Bos is/was to the Red Sox.
That is definitely NOT the case.. The Athletics were to Philadelphia what the Red Sox were to Boston or the Cardinals were to St. Louis. Remember, football wasn't really around in the early 1900's and the Eagles were not formed until 1933. So before that, baseball was the sport in every city, from Philadelphia to Boston, to Washington to Chicago to Detroit. In Philadelphia, the disparity between the two teams couldn't be any bigger. The A's won 6 World Series from 1910 to 1931, winning in 1910, 1911, 1913, 1929, and 1930. The A's also won the pennant is 1902, 1905, 1910, 1911, 1913, 1914, 1929, 1930, and 1931. Meanwhile, the Phillies had exactly one winning season from 1918 to 1948. They had a winning season in 1932 and had 30 losing season in that span.

The difference between the two teams was apparent on the field, and it was very clear that the Athletics were the more beloved team by Philadelphia. It makes sense, because if you compare Philadelphia to Boston, the A's were a better franchise than the Red Sox, and the Phillies were a worse franchise than the Braves. So losing the primary team in Philadelphia tore at the hearts of Philadelphians. Actually, it is said that you can still find old men who were Athletics fans who are still angry about the move and refuse to root for the Phillies because the Phillies were "that other team" in Philadelphia.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The Phillies are winning 9-1 right now, so disaster might be averted.

The planets almost aligned tonight for this. Imagine the 10,000th loss coming on Friday the 13th.:shifty: Of course, it's never over when it's the Phillies. We'll see if this sad state of events occurs tonight or gets postponed one more day.
 

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Interesting history lesson, which I didn't know, other than the fact that the A's originally called Philly home way back when. It's kind of reassuring to know we had a baseball team around here worthy of rooting for. At the same time, it's too bad they left. I probably would be more of a baseball fan if we had a winner around here. I couldn't care less about the Phillies, although I do typically get to a few games a year, usually through my workplace.
 
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