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Which towers will be built (or at least u/c) by 2012?

Which towers will be built (or at least u/c) by 2012?

9K views 64 replies 28 participants last post by  ismail 
#1 ·
Alright, let's take a poll. What's your gut feeling about these towers?

How many do you think will actually be built - or at least seeing ground level construction, with a core rising - by 2012?
 
#14 · (Edited)
Do you know something we don't?, as far as i'm aware the result of the PI is not out yet, and Boris has no say in the matter other than make a comment.

All the city towers,LBT, RS South, I think by then with the up turn in the property cycle, even 100 Bishopsgate will start ( it may start sooner if a Arab property investment trust buys it)

Not so sure about anything in the Vauxhall area.

Betham if it gets past the PI ( why would some one invest in it if they wern't confident of it getting through).

Oh and Jef... are you related to Nostrodamus:nuts:
 
#9 ·
ahhh ok. so the pinnacle, heron and leadenhall won't be built and we are all suffering collective delusions. the developers with their cash are suffering them too. i guess the quantity surveyors who have costed the project are. i guess the contractors brought in to build them are. i am dealing with mass delusion with people i speak to all the time because YOU are right and dozens of people i know working for dozens of companies are wrong. after all, whats the contracted committments of many large companies backed up by hundreds of millions in cash to build skyscrapers compared to the "beliefs" of someone on a skyscraper forum.
 
#12 ·
Did you talk to the same people when you published this on your website "Canary Wharf 2008"? Link: http://www.skyscrapernews.com/greenwich_2008.htm



"This astonishing rendering/montage shows the enormous growth that's predicted and proposed for Canary Wharf over the coming years. The nucleus is already there but the density is such that you can't even see half of Heron Quays and West India Quay is completely invisible.

This rendering shows Riverside South on the left, some unbuilt proposals for Heron Quays including Will Alsop's technicolour proposal to its immediate right and directly infront of them the London arena. Part of the Millenium Quarter is also visible with the new proposal for 1 Millharbour though many rises have vanished too again because of the density. Behind HSB and Citigroup is two towers for North Quay and finally a completely Barclays tower.

Visible or invisible because of density are 14 skyscrapers over 500ft tall, plus a further 7 over 100m tall. To put it another way Canary Wharf in 2008 when all this is scheduled for completition will be comparable to today's San Francisco.
"
 
#13 ·
god you are a right **** arent you. i didnt even make that image, i took the photo and thats all. its not even on the current version of skyscrapernews, or the version before it etc. youre looking at a webpage from 2001 whilst the world trade centers were still standing and heron quays was still being built that predates this forum which is why it has the original version of crossharbour on it. in defense of matt who did do the image, i would expect one looking seven years in the future to be as inaccurate when you havent even seen the design of the buildings and are guessing (north quay, pan peninsula hadnt even been proposed etc). well done jef! maybe slag me off for something i HAVE done yes? maybe you want to slag off architects journal, i believe they published that image too. how about slagging off the civic trust, they also published that image.
 
#15 ·
LBT-Built
Pinnacle- Built
Heron-Built
Leadenhall- Built
Crossharbour (Baltimore Wharf)- Built
St George's Wharf- Built
Merchant Square -Built/U/C
Riverside South- Built/U/C
1 Park Place- U/C
20 Fenchurch Street-U/C

1 Blackfriars Road (Mirax-Beetham tower) - Built (If it wins PI)
Northgate Tower (Bishops Place) - Built or U/C (again depending if it gets planning)

100 Bishopsgate- Demo

North Quay- Not until after Crossrail so a while yet.
Columbus Tower- unknown- Not 100% sure if Crossrail is stopping development but planning permission wil have run out by then so something will happen on this site, possibly a new proposal.
Wood Wharf- Groundworks & reconfiguration of docks complete.
Heron Quays West- Groundworks done at the very least
Croydon Gateway Landmark Tower - Depends on if Shroders/Stanhope win the PI as AIG are looking for new offices in the area & are getting impatient . If Arrowcroft win- No

Vauxhall Cross twin towers- Seem to have been lost in the abyss of Lambeth planning (might even have been withdrawn)

Sugar House- Nothing has been heard of this since this proposal was submitted for the MIPIM comp last year. Doubtful it will happen.

Cherry Orchard Road Towers -This along with most of the other Croydon towers are more effected by financing issues as other parts of London. So , as with most grand Croydon plans - doubtful.


None of the above (this poll option is for JamesC and oliviersa only )..You forgot Large ;)
 
#21 ·
2012 is three and a half years away and even if some of the schemes are delayed they should still be substantially complete by then. Heron/Leadenhall/Pinnacle definately and I have high hopes for 20FC as well - they surely will not waste the planning permission already obtained and I would think should be able to get some prelets (if thats what they are waiting for) when the upturn kicks in.

Still not sure about the Shard - I still feel it could be just too expensive to build but we should at least know whats happening in the next few months as the money men will have to make a decision on the final budget.

I think whats going to happen a CW is anybodys guess. RS is so stonkingly (I think I may have just made that word up :)) big that it could delay almost everything else if CWG make the decision to go ahead. Now some of the non CWG stuff ( like Park Place/Marsh Wall etc etc ) could decide to go ahead early and beat RS - but will they have the guts either now or perhaps in the next 12 months.

From CWG position it may well be better to build something smaller (like 25CP) even speculatively to be ready around 2012, so they have something available for the upturn.

I know CWG have started at RS and something will be built there but would not suprise me if it finished up being 2 smaller towers with less bulk between them.
 
#22 ·
My bet:

City: Heron and Pinnacle completed; Leadenhall substantially delayed and still U/C in 2012 (thanks to Ropemaker). Fenchurch also U/C.

CW: RS: podium and one tower U/C, other tower to start after 2012

Shard: Completed, but only just.


That would be a lot for 4 years and I really hope it materializes.
 
#24 ·
:sleepy:
 
#28 ·
^^^Be clear then...why is Heron cursed when its all go?
 
#30 ·
thank you ..that is most unfortunate; the unnecessary spin over misinformation to back up a personal point of view......again :mad:
 
#31 ·
Hi all I'm new to this forum but have been looking on for a couple of months now. I actually work for in construction for a FTSE 250 company and I honestly can say that there has been no slowdown in large scale projects so far. Maybe it will happen in the months to come but we've never been so busy as we are currently.
 
#34 ·
I err on the side of caution.

I am cautiously optimistic that the following will be either built or u/c by 2012:

Heron
122 Leadenhall
Pinnacle
LBT

That's about it really. And to be honest London doesn't need any more than that to have a wonderful skyline.

Riverside South won't be spec built and Crossrail is a long way off. I don't think Heron Quays will happen for another 5-10 years at least either.

I think many of the forumers here can't remember what a recession is like. All it would take is say, Lehman Brothers to go bankrupt (they look very shaky to me) and look for the credit crunch to get even worse.

I mean, who would want to buy a house at the moment? Prices look to drop by 20%... that is going to cause a lot of bad debt, banks won't be able to lend until their capital adequacy rations are at Basel II levels. Reckon on stagnation for the next 2-5 years.

Re skyscraper development. Anything with Islamic finance is sorted as they are making money hand over fist and are medium to long term investors and London is somewhere the Arabs are familiar with and which won't be offended if they park their capital there.

E.g. Could arab finance be used to build any towers in New York at the moment?!

America's loss is our gain, sukuk/shariah compliant finance will be a massive industry in the coming years and London should benefit from it both in terms of jobs, developing expertise and investment!

It could also make lots of uneconomical schemes such as Ram's Brewery/Columbus/20 Fenchurch Street viable.

I think 2012 is a long way ahead... a lot can happen in this time. China's economy will be 40% bigger than it is now (for starters!) and will have surpassed Germany to become #3 in the world.

In comparison the UK - assuming a 1.75% annual growth rate for the next 4 years will be barely 9% bigger.

Russia will carry on growing quickly as well if things carry on as they are with regard to commodities.

Tony Blair was bang on the other day in the Observer. People don't understand that Asia is growing exponentially faster than the West and will start, in effect buying up our real estate, companies etc. The worlds balance of power is shifting at an historically unprecendented rate. Every year the centre of the world is moving a few hundred miles east.

The BRICS and the Middle East have joined the globalisation party. What is for sure, new income streams will become available and investment will start to flow in to the UK from China/Russia/Middle East and perhaps even Brazil.

Hence me being perhaps slightly more optimistic than Jef.

We live in interesting times.
 
#35 ·
Nice post Dom. Not sure China and Russia will continue to grow at those rates if the West slides into recession...who will they sell their stuff too? I know they have a growing internal market, but they are heavily reliant on exports to keep growing. I hope you're right about the Arabs...must admit, if they think building hundreds of skyscrapers in a city which is uninhabitable for 3 months of the year, and just a giant shopping mall the rest ,makes good business sense, then London is definitely is a good deal!
 
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