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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It would appear that Canada is. I guess we're only capable of assembling
other countries' cars.


First, Transport Canada denied approval for over 18 months even though the car was already being sold in the U.S., Europe and Asia.

http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/video/environmentscience/unplugging_the_electric_car_1.html

Due to public outcry, Transport Canada finally issued the approval but..
http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/video/environmentscience/a_victory_for_zenn_1.html

.. they then changed the regulations and de-approved it. Transport minister Lawrence Cannon will no longer comment on the issue.
http://www.cbc.ca/national/blog/special_feature/green_rush/zenn_car_update_1.html

Dynasty Electric Car Co., formerly of Delta B.C., has given up and has been sold. They are now the Dynasty Electric Car Co. of Karachi Pakistan.

Canada
Not on our roads
May 1st 2008 | MONTREAL
From The Economist print edition

Bureaucrats against electric cars, and progress

IN THESE times of high petrol prices and worries about climate change, you might think that any country would be proud to enjoy a lead in manufacturing electric cars. Not Canada, it seems. Two Canadian companies, ZENN Motor Company and Dynasty Electric Car, make small electric cars designed for city use; a third, which will use new battery technology developed by Exxon Mobil, plans to launch a model later this year.

But almost all these “low-speed vehicles” (or LSVs) are exported to the United States because Canada refuses to allow their use on public roads. Transport Canada, the regulatory agency, questions their safety. It doubts they would stand up in a collision with a delivery truck or a sport utility vehicle. Officials say they crash-tested one which didn't fare well, though they refuse to release the data. The agency wants LSVs confined to “controlled areas”, such as university campuses, military bases, parks and Canada's few gated communities. Its advice has carried weight with the provinces, which make the rules of the road.

It is true that the cars are made from lightweight metals and plastics. But the manufacturers allege political bias: Stephen Harper's conservative government has much support in oil-rich Alberta. Backed by thousands of would-be buyers, they are campaigning to reverse the agency's decision. “It's a ludicrous regulatory situation. All you can point to is oil and the big guys and think there's a conspiracy somewhere,” says Danny Epp of Dynasty.

Mr Epp reckons that his car should be allowed on urban streets with speed limits of around 50kph (30mph) or less. But Dynasty recently gave up the battle. In March it announced that it is being bought by a Pakistani firm, which will move production to Karachi and export to the United States from there.

ZENN—that stands for zero emission, no noise—promises to fight on. Ian Clifford, its boss, points out that there has not been a single death related to LSVs in the United States, where 44 states allow them and some 45,000 such cars are in use. And gas-guzzlers imperil public safety by polluting the air, he notes. But Mr Clifford is not expecting change soon. He claims that his campaign against Transport Canada has made him enemies. “Two senior, entrenched bureaucrats have told me personally that if it is the last thing they do, they'll keep LSVs off the road in Canada,” he says.

http://www.economist.com/world/la/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11294453
 

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Big oil and the Big Three.

What I love about the safety issue they raise is that they are essentially saying that they are less safe than a motorcycle or scooter.
Also note that Canada does not allow 3 wheel cars either unlike the US. They even sell the Tut Tut from India because it brought up to American emmsion levels.
 

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Also note that Canada does not allow 3 wheel cars either unlike the US.
I think you are wrong on that point.

We have plenty of T-Rex's here in Montreal (it,s a three wheel car with a motorcycle engine). and they are definately legal!!

What I love about the safety issue they raise is that they are essentially saying that they are less safe than a motorcycle or scooter.
Good point. we all know that as long as the conservatives are in power, the electric car will not make any advances in the market!
 

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Depressing reflection of the myopia in this country. On a related note: With Ontario's foundering auto industry shuttering some factories, this would be the ideal time for federal and provincial governments to take the lead and marshal research forces to develop a Canadian-made sustainable vehicle of the future. The infrastructure is there. But that would take vision, ambition, money, and intergovernmental co-operation, so we can forget about it.
 

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big three against the electric car? come on, GM had hybrid before toyota or honda, but legistlation made those cars illegal. Ford has one of the best hybrid systems, and GM is coming up with the Volt really soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
big three against the electric car? come on, GM had hybrid before toyota or honda, but legistlation made those cars illegal. Ford has one of the best hybrid systems, and GM is coming up with the Volt really soon.
But Malek, that still doesn't explain why our own government is blocking the Zenn when the rest of the world isn't. That doesn't make sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
btw, Zenn is also illegal because it can't go faster than 40kmh, which frankly is dangerous!!!
It goes 50kmh and that is perfect for most people's needs within the city. That's why it's being sold in the U.S., Asia and Europe...
 

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dude it runs at 40kmh! its friggin dangerous. Zenn is based around Montreal and I've heard plenty about it. Zenn also said that they're working on making it speedier which should make it street legal.

The zenn was designed with postal services in mind, you know the post man delivering his mail from house to house, they were contenders for a french postal services public bidding for a huge contract which they just lost.

think about it, at 40kmh, you can't even overtake a car doing 40kmh (and no one drives this slow).
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
dude it runs at 40kmh! its friggin dangerous. Zenn is based around Montreal and I've heard plenty about it. Zenn also said that they're working on making it speedier which should make it street legal.

The zenn was designed with postal services in mind, you know the post man delivering his mail from house to house, they were contenders for a french postal services public bidding for a huge contract which they just lost.

think about it, at 40kmh, you can't even overtake a car doing 40kmh (and no one drives this slow).
Then why is it selling in the rest of the world and not here and why will the plant end up moving and continue to sell to the rest of the world from another country while we lose all of the jobs and any future R+D? Not fast enough for Canada, just the rest of the world?
 

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oooops i made a huge mistake i mixed zenn with a project in the montreal area!!! agh... but that doesn't change the fact, that the zenn still drives at 25 miles = 40kmh

seriously, who cares about the rest of the world and their ridiculous decisions???can you really put on the same level some european cities with streets as wide as my bathroom comparable to the thinnest of streets in canada?

if a vehicle can't at least go 70kmh outside of highways, then its useless and dangerous, point final on OUR roads.

you also state the USA, but really its just mostly some rural counties that permit these slow vehicles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
oooops i made a huge mistake i mixed zenn with a project in the montreal area!!! agh... but that doesn't change the fact, that the zenn still drives at 25 miles = 40kmh

seriously, who cares about the rest of the world and their ridiculous decisions???can you really put on the same level some european cities with streets as wide as my bathroom comparable to the thinnest of streets in canada?

if a vehicle can't at least go 70kmh outside of highways, then its useless and dangerous, point final on OUR roads.

you also state the USA, but really its just mostly some rural counties that permit these slow vehicles.
Then why don't we at least allow that? This is a perfect vehicle for car share and people who never drive on autoroutes. I think it would be a great delivery vehicle for Coq Express and St Hubert etc. The fact is, this is a company which employs people here in Québec and has a great future and we are going to lose it because our federal government has some other agenda. B.C., Manitoba, Ontario, Québec and P.E.I. want to certify it, why doesn't the federal government? Maybe we'll feel better when they move to some other country and become hugely successful. We can say it started here!
 

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oooops i made a huge mistake i mixed zenn with a project in the montreal area!!! agh... but that doesn't change the fact, that the zenn still drives at 25 miles = 40kmh
The highway code in BC states that 50 is the minimum speed for freeways. If you don't have the sense to keep you ZENN car off the freeways then you don't deserve your license.

seriously, who cares about the rest of the world and their ridiculous decisions???
That's what GWB said five years ago. :lol:

can you really put on the same level some european cities with streets as wide as my bathroom comparable to the thinnest of streets in canada?
It's as big as a Volkswagen Mini. No one has problems with them because they're small. Except for stupid SUV drivers, but who should have sympathy for them when they get raped at the gas station?

if a vehicle can't at least go 70kmh outside of highways, then its useless and dangerous, point final on OUR roads.
Again, if you're a ZENN driver who doesn't know that some roads are off-limits because of speed limits, then you don't deserve a driver's license. It's YOU who shouldn't be on OUR roads.

you also state the USA, but really its just mostly some rural counties that permit these slow vehicles.
Like China, with their lack of any big roads.


Or India, where everyone gets by on cows.
 

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I agree with ssiguy on the crash-testing story being bullshit.

However, I also agree with malek on the speed issue. 40km/h is the speed of residential streets. Most arterial roads are 50km/h in urban areas, 60km/h in suburban areas. If these flooded our streets in Canada, road rage would be virtually guaranteed to rise. I don't agree with malek that the speed alone is unsafe; the slower it goes the less chance it has of hitting something since it can stop sooner with a shorter braking distance than something that travels faster and weighs more. What makes it dangerous, which malek fails to address, is the stupid driving habits of the general public and their attitude behind the wheel. If people weren't obsessed with speeding every which way, that safety hazard wouldn't be worth much, but our reality is that it is; this is why only rural areas can use them in the states, but they're supposedly designed for urban use, not rural.
 

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How is the technology coming along for cars to run on hydrogen taken from water? I know the buses to be used at the Winter Olympics are going to be "green", and running only on hydrogen, however the catch is the hydrogen is being trucked (in a very emissions-spewing huge-carbon-footprint non-green way) from Montreal to Vancouver.
To me this sounds like a very promising idea for future cars.
 

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Urbanfan89, look it doesn't matter what the rest of the world decides to run on their road, its their jurisdictions, its their problems. Seriously, this is how the world runs, we can't always point at others and say, they have it, let's have it. They are good reasons why the car is not street legal here.

If the manufacturer can't come up with a solution to speed up his car to make it legal, then too bad for him. Its up to the manufacturer to obey the law, not to the government to change laws to suit a manufacturer (where will it end).

Habfan, most coq express and st-hubert i've seen use the smart for delivery, I think we can all agree that its better for the environnement to replace a car at the end of its lifecycle than to change it right away for a more fuel efficient car.

TRZ, i think its implied for anyone who drives a car (and it seems not too many here do), that its dangerous to drive this slow in the real world, where 99% of people don't obey speed limits (thats another issue altogether). Residential streets are 40kmh or 50kmh, 50kmh for thoroughfare and 60kmh in bigger thorougfares, none of these are able to accomodate the zenn.

Taller, you should read on the Honda FCX, currently in testing in California, it runs completly on Hydrogen. The main issue with hydrogen now is the lack of infrastructure (fueling stations, hydrogen transport, etc). Its like the egg and chicken, no one wants to invest in the infrastructure because there is a lack of cars, and no one is building them because the lack of infrastructure. Hopefully with the high oil prices and the offerings from Honda and Ford, more companies will decide to invest in that.

Urbanfan89, i want to see your face in 10 years, when SUVs will run on hydrogen. hahahaha.
 

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here's an article form Today's LaPresse.

It basically says that this guy buys slightly used mazda 3's (which are very popular in Québec) and then converts them to electric cars. He then resells them from approx. 20,000 to 25,000$. THe Battery is good for about 100km's and it can be plugged into any outlet.

Even though the battery doesn't last very long, he says that he created these vehicules for people who drive to work every day. The average commuter does less than 30KM's per day.



Des Mazda 3 qui roulent à l'électricité
Hélène Baril - La Presse
27 mai 2008 | 07 h 20


En attendant des voitures électriques plus abordables et plus performantes, Loïc Daignault a décidé de faire quelque chose pour la planète, et pour le portefeuille.

Son entreprise, Voitures électriques, convertit des voitures traditionnelles en véhicules électriques qu'il est possible de brancher chez soi pour en recharger les batteries. Les voitures ainsi converties n'ont aucune restriction de circulation sur le réseau routier.

Ce jeune ingénieur a choisi la Mazda 3, une voiture populaire avec un bon rapport qualité-prix. Il achète les véhicules usagés de quelques années, les convertit et les revend à un prix variant entre 20 000$ et 25 000$.

Le véhicule modifié se passe complètement de pétrole et peut rouler à une vitesse maximale de 120 à 140 km/h. Il est équipé de batteries ordinaires qui assurent une autonomie de 100 kilomètres. Des batteries au lithium-ion pourraient quadrupler cette autonomie, mais le coût serait prohibitif, explique-t-il. «Mon objectif, c'est d'entrer sur le marché avec un produit abordable».

Les batteries restent le point faible des voitures électriques. Elles sont soit hors de prix, comme les batteries au lithium-ion, soit très encombrantes. Les batteries ordinaires installées dans les Mazda 3 de Loïc Daignault, 24 au total, occupent tout le coffre arrière de la voiture.

Ça peut être un inconvénient, reconnaît-il, mais son marché cible, ce sont les gens qui prennent leur voiture tous les jours pour aller travailler, et qui ne se servent jamais du coffre de toute façon.

L'autre inconvénient de ses Mazda, c'est leur autonomie de seulement 100 kilomètres. Encore là, l'ingénieur n'y voit pas un problème majeur. «La majorité des gens font moins de 30 kilomètres par jour pour aller travailler», dit-il.

La batterie peut être branchée dans n'importe quelle prise électrique et ne nécessite pas de changement au système électrique. «C'est comme un toaster», illustre l'ingénieur.

Loïc Daignault a commencé en 2006 à transformer son idée en entreprise. Il est maintenant fin prêt, et n'attend plus que son permis de commerçant de voitures usagées pour se lancer en affaires. Une question de semaines, selon lui.

Coût pour parcourir 20 000 kilomètres par année avec une Mazda 3

Essence: 2400$
Électricité: 240$
 
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