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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Im getting pessimistic about it happening. I've been in downtown for the last few days, and i've talked to a view of my friend's parents that work there, and they say they're don't think it's gonna happen. I SAY WE TRY TO GET A GUGGENHEIM INSTEAD!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
some of my parent's friends work for the city, and they say that some ppl, think that its would be a big waste of money to invest in the park. Others want only a park. Others want only museums. And others want a condo building. One of the big reasons the project wasnt in the first round of funding is because ppl still ahvent decided wut is going to be in there. So the project might just get stalled for a long while, although im sure somethign will happen there, im not so sure it'll be "museum park"
 

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the county is investing in the park as well with general obligation tax revenues which were passsed in the last election so there is no doubt this will eventually happen...how can museums be a waste of money?.. and BiCentennial currently isn't?.. in a park that currently is unusable and a waste of taxpayer funds to the general public?...oh and forget about the condo deal..it didn't fly with the public when it was proposed behind the AA Arena it certainly won't fly here either....Just my two cents!



http://www.miamisci.org/scota/img/DoverKohl2.jpg
 

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That looks like a great park, and Bob is right about a museum not being a waste of money. Miami can certainly use the culture and educational facilities that a museum offers. Also this park is basically a feild that noone uses right now, its a shame that prime bayfront land like this is not put to use for the public. They need to get this project started (perhaps they are not doing it right now due to all the construction in the area already, 5 towers across the street and Biscayne project?)
 

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The main disagreement among people is how much space the museums will be given. Some proposals have them taking up relatively little space while some have them taking up over half the park. Also, the museums are supposed to provide their own funding for the actual construction of the buildings, and fundraising hasn't exactly gone well. The city isn't happy that the one portion that the museams were supposed to cover, they are now asking the city to cover it for them.
 

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^ well Dave considering what is there now this would certainly be an improvement. The Museum Park will be a cohesive part of the emerging Arts district.
As far as the fundraising is concerned remember that the Performing Arts Center is still actively soliciting donations from the public as well as the private sector and is in direct competition for funds.
Hopefully once the PAC is completed the focus will shift towards the park
 

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funny article,from miamisunpost.com
Miami Plans Away. But Will Anything Come of It?

The question is not whether the zoning code needs to be completely revised. It does. Rather the question is whether it is too late to stop the insanity.




One of the “after” renderings from the Miami 21 plan.
Courtesy Miami Planning Department

Jack King
Columnist



My, the city of Miami has been busy over the past few weeks. They have announced a complete overhaul of the city’s zoning code, the finalization of plans for Bicentennial Park, the beginning of a new master plan for Virginia Key and the beginning of a new waterfront master plan for Coconut Grove. I’m glad to see the city seemingly moving forward with ambitious plans. However, I am very cautious and holding in reserve any comment because, in the 30 years I have been covering City Hall, there have been literally dozens of wonderful plans that have been floated and exactly zero of them have ever been implemented.

Take for instance the Miami zoning code. It was redone, albeit in patchwork fashion, in the 1980s, and called “9000.” It had a few flaws, so the zoning department studied it and revised it again in the 1990s and it was referred to as “11000.” It was supposed to be more than adequate for the city for the next 30 years. We all know that isn’t true, but what happened? The best I can tell is that rather than fixing the zoning code, the city made it so complex that no one could understand it, so no one built anything.

Along came the go-go next millennium and there was much money to be made in development. The developers and their attorneys proved to be much smarter than the zoning stiffs in the city, dissecting the code to their own benefit and maxing out their developmental potential from a purely financial standpoint. Never try to confuse a zoning attorney with mumbo jumbo. They’ll get you every time, especially if they can get someone to pay them $300 an hour to do it.

Now the question is not whether the zoning code needs to be completely revised. It does. But rather the question is whether it is too late to stop the insanity that is now going on. I suspect that it is too late for this round, but might help in 30 years when these buildings are old and being torn down.

The development of Bicentennial Park is supposed to be a done deal, with the selection of the Museum of Science and the Miami Art Museum to be in the park. But the entire project seems to be stuck in the mud. This, after five years of planning and meetings, was to be Commissioner Johnny Winton’s shining example of how the public and private sector could come together and design something that is beneficial to the entire community. He still touts that vision, but privately has been less than pleased because the two museums have raised very little money for construction, and seemingly are looking to the city and county to pay for the lion’s share of the construction. And that doesn’t even include the fact that they also want recurring funds for the operation of the facilities. If there are not changes soon, they could be out before they are in.

The dog and pony show for the kickoff of the Virginia Key master plan took place in a rainstorm on the beach. It had little substance, but sounded very nice. Winton, with his feet firmly planted in the sand, stated unequivocally that there would never be condos there. He didn’t say that about the Miami Marine Stadium property down the road a bit. What was most interesting about this kickoff was who was and wasn’t there. Nearly every member of the Key Biscayne Village Council was there, including their mayor. However, only Winton and City Manager Joe Arriola showed up to represent Miami. Seems like Mayor Manny Diaz was called away to Tallahassee in a last ditch effort to get the Marlins their new $400 million home.

Development on Virginia Key is very important to Key Biscayne, primarily because of increased traffic. Traffic on the Key is a mess and it is primarily because Key Biscayne has literally condo-ed over its entire island. They don’t want the city of Miami to make it any worse.

And finally on to Coconut Grove, where we have another master plan — the fifth since 1982. None of those ever got to first base because they were used to ameliorate the pissed-off public. It never really worked; it just kept them in a low-level seething state. With this new study, there isn’t much to study as most of the property has already been spoken for.

One piece of it Winton and Arriola would like to change would be to get rid of the Coconut Grove Convention Center, but they really haven’t given us any insight as to what they would do, except to expand the parks component. I’ve never been a strong proponent of the convention center either. It’s ugly and it’s in the wrong place, but the political reality is that there are some very powerful forces who want to keep it and I can tell you they have three votes on the City Commission. I don’t see that changing, so my guess is, no matter what happens, the convention center stays regardless of how bad an idea it is.

All of this adds up to quite a lot happening in the city. Hopefully the city will have public hearings for all of these issues (as they have promised) and it is our responsibility to show up and let them know what we think. Then the hard part begins: getting them to do the right thing.



Comments? E-mail [email protected]
 

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This is an interesting thread. I have heard and seen alot of the Museum Park news, and recently have to agree that there has been an apparent decline in terms of priority for this potentially super-beneficial project. This article doesnt' seen to show the County moving any faster either. :eek:hno:

Museum Park not in first round of bond funding

By Suzy Valentine
Three museums hoping to move to Bicentennial Park in downtown Miami are not on a recommended list of first-round allocations of Miami-Dade County's $2.9 billion General Obligation Bond.
The most recent distribution plan for the money, approved Tuesday by the county's bond committee, is set to be discussed May 17 by the county commission.
The first phase of funds disbursement will be for $250 million, with money flowing as early as June. In the first round, 195 projects are to receive funds.
Money from the bond is to be distributed over 15 years with millage rates capped at 0.39. The rate is based on projected growth in tax rolls of 9.5% over the next year and 5.5% a year thereafter.
Under the pending schedule, the three museums fall into the second phase of financing from the bond. But the Historical Museum of Southern Florida, the Miami Art Museum and the Museum of Science & Planetarium must raise $25 million, $100 million and $150 million, respectively, before the county will match the funds.
In the meantime, the City of Miami has launched a master plan to turn Bicentennial into Museum Park. It will pay designers Cooper Robertson up to $1.4 million for the plan.
Another arts project to miss out on financing this year and next is the South Miami-Dade Cultural Center.
Capital-improvements coordinator Roger Hernstadt said $29.3 million was earmarked for cultural projects - almost double the $15.8 million allocated to housing in the first round.
The Cuban Museum is set to receive $2 million and the Florida Grand Opera $4 million - the largest allocation to a single entity - in the first allocations.
Michael Spring, director of the county's Department of Cultural Affairs, gave a breakdown Tuesday of arts and cultural entities receiving bond money:
nCarver Theatre, $1 million.
nCoconut Grove Playhouse, $1.7 million.
nCuban Museum, $2 million.
nFairchild Tropical Botanic Garden, $2 million.
nFlorida Grand Opera, $4 million.
nLyric Theatre, $1.5 million.
NMetroZoo, $2.5 million.
nVirginia Key Beach Park, $2 million.
Nvizcaya, $1.7 million.
nWolfsonian FIU, $1.35 million.
Under the plan, the Hialeah High School Performing Arts Center won't receive any funds. It has been allocated $500,000.
"I was wondering with what's in this package if everyone's going to be happy with this," said Commissioner Katy Sorenson, "not that we're ever going to make everyone happy."
Commissioner Carlos Gimenez said Tuesday that the first $250 million of funding was based on conservative projections. Growth in tax rolls in the next year could be closer to 12% than 9.5%, he said, and the county could have financed $15 million more in projects.
"I think if we're all somewhat unhappy," said Mr. Gimenez, "it's a good process."
There are winners and losers in the first allocation of General Obligation Bond funds approved Tuesday by a Miami-Dade County committee.
The county commission plans to review the timetable for distributing the first round of funds, $250 million, on May 17.
The breakdown shows disparity among the county's 13 districts, with the top beneficiary receiving almost three times as much as the bottom.
County Commissioner Sally Heyman's District 4 has been allocated $19.6 million. The district stretches north-to-south between Golden and Miami beaches and west to Miami Shores.
County Commissioner Natacha Seijas' District 13 is to receive $7.2 million from the first sale in June or July. The district covers much of Hialeah, Miami Lakes and some unincorporated areas including Palm Springs North and the Country Club of Miami.
Neither commissioner participates in the bond subcommittee that approved the allocation.
In addition to District 4, the breakdowns recommended by committee for the first bond sale are:
•District 6 - West Miami, Miami Springs and parts of Coral Gables, Hialeah, Miami and unincorporated Miami-Dade: $16.6 million, or 6.6%.
•District 12 - Doral, parts of Hialeah, Hialeah Gardens, Medley, Sweetwater, Virginia Gardens and some unincorporated areas: $16 million, or 6.4%.
•District 7 - Key Biscayne, parts of Miami and Coral Gables, South Miami, Pinecrest and some unincorporated Miami-Dade County: $13.4 million, or 5.4%.
•District 3 - parts of Miami including Liberty City, Little Haiti, Overtown, the Upper Eastside, Allapattah and Wynwood and Miami Shores: $11.6 million, or 4.6% .
•District 5 - parts of Miami, Miami Beach and unincorporated Fisher Island: $11.5 million, or 4.6%.
District 8 - Cutler Ridge, parts of Homestead, Leisure City, Old Cutler, Naranja and Princeton: $10.7 million, or 4.3%.
•District 2 - parts of North Miami Beach to the Miami River: $10.3 million, or 4.1%.
•District 1 - Carol City, Norland, Crestview, Rolling Oaks, Bunche Park, Scott Lakes, Andover, Opa-locka and parts of North Miami Beach and North Miami: $8.5 million, or 3.4%.
•District 10 - parts of Kendall and Westchester: $7.9 million, or 3.2%.
•District 9 - Southwest Miami-Dade, including Florida City and Homestead: $7.6 million, or 3%.
•District 11 - unincorporated areas of west Miami-Dade: $7.4 million, or 3%.
•District 13 - $7.2 million, or 2.9%.
District expenditures account for about $148 million of spending in the first round of distribution. Countywide, multidistrict and unincorporated municipal service-area funds and the cost of the issuance make up the remaining $102 million.

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/050512/story2.shtml
 

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nothing like a column from a pessimist. I would have the same exact sentiments if this was 10 years ago and the inefficient government that graced Miami's City Hall with all of it's inept and corrupt politicians. Please remember there was a movement at the time to abolish the city of Miami and incorporate it into UMSA (Miami-Dade county) after the city was near bankruptcy and it's bond ratings were nearly junk status according to Standard & Poors and Moodys. Thankfully that is no longer the case as the city has added tens of millions of dollars in property taxes due to all the new construction.
Read my previous posts on this thread regarding bond & private sector financing.

PS: Do you think the Smithsonian would be involved in this project if they knew it would never come to fruition?
 

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Bob are you saying you were not impressed with Xavier the savior? ;-)
 

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I was downtown last week around Bayfront, Bayside, Bicentennial, etc. To me Bicentennial looks a little small to house two museums and a park (maybe I just couldn't visualize it). The rendering looks great though.
I HOPE THIS HAPPENS!!!
 

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Bobdreamz said:
nothing like a column from a pessimist. I would have the same exact sentiments if this was 10 years ago and the inefficient government that graced Miami's City Hall with all of it's inept and corrupt politicians. Please remember there was a movement at the time to abolish the city of Miami and incorporate it into UMSA (Miami-Dade county) after the city was near bankruptcy and it's bond ratings were nearly junk status according to Standard & Poors and Moodys. Thankfully that is no longer the case as the city has added tens of millions of dollars in property taxes due to all the new construction.
Read my previous posts on this thread regarding bond & private sector financing.

PS: Do you think the Smithsonian would be involved in this project if they knew it would never come to fruition?
I agree, i think it will come to fruition, and the writer is significantly more pessimistic than I am regarding such topics. I also am very excited about the economic improvements our region is experiencing. I think the Smithsonian thing is a great joint venture/partner for the project and the city -have they made any official investments/signings yet?

I think it will most likely happen, my concern is it's relative priority with the governing bodies here. I think this item should get a bump up and was really surprised that it wasn't a top priority since we are already 4 years after the Dover/Kohl proposals with only the seawall beginning re-construction about a year ago. The museums are currently 275 million shy of what they need, and the PAC, which is at least a year late and millions of dollars over budget may discourage investors/donors. The qoute from my article also concerns me timewise as the city has a new architect (no prob w/that) and will pay 1.4 million for the final master plan which has yet to be developed.

This is a perfect example, like the streetcar and the SoundSpace (New World Symphony & Frank Gehry) building, of something that I believe should be considered much more prominent relative to their prospective roles in our region's cultural, social, and economic futures.
 

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Yeah...seriously....
"There is a new Sheriff in town." Things are getting done in this town like never before, and it is gettting recognized worldwide.
 

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Here is why museum park should happen. Just an example of the type of things that go on in the park now:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/12297443.htm

The bloody seawall: foul play or prank?

BY NICHOLAS SPANGLER

[email protected]


The blood was still on the seawall Wednesday, two days after Miami police got an anonymous call: A woman was dumped into the bay off Bicentennial Park. She was handcuffed.

But when police got there, they didn't find a body.

They still haven't.

It's the sort of thing that sets your mind crawling. A woman was executed: She had a life in this city with you, maybe friends and a job. But she did something, or had something, and somebody decided she had to die for it.

Or there was no woman at all: just a nasty, strange joke.

There was a lot of blood on the seawall. It was an eight-foot smear, as if a body had been dragged. Lab tests proved it was human. ''If somebody was pulling a prank, they sure went to a lot of trouble,'' said Miami Police Lt. Bill Schwartz.

The call came in at 6 a.m. Monday. Whoever made it could have spotted the dumping from the MacArthur Causeway, where it arches down into downtown Miami. But the caller must have been close when the woman was dumped, or had very good eyesight, because the sun didn't rise until 6:47.

A passing boater would have had a better view. And somebody in the park could have seen, perhaps from the south, where an abandoned concession stand shelters a dozen or so homeless men who sleep there most nights.

They don't have cellphones. If one of them made the call, he would have had to run through the park and across Biscayne Boulevard, maybe to a pay phone at the BP gas station.

Or somebody could have seen it from the top of the hill.

''People come up here, do their business,'' said one park maintenance man, sweeping the hilltop patio Wednesday afternoon. 'There's a reason they call it `Punk Hill.' There's drugs, prostitutes. They come here in their Mercedes, the SUVs, nighttimes.''

Officers responding Monday morning found no witnesses. ''The only people I saw in the park yesterday were homeless folks who said they didn't see anything,'' Schwartz said.

Police divers arrived at 8:30 a.m. and spent 45 minutes in a radial search pattern, starting against the seawall and slowly dragging a rope in increasingly large arcs across the surface of Biscayne Bay.

The water is eight feet deep against the seawall, but soon drops to 30 feet, deep enough to give docking cruise ships some maneuvering room. It's warm and dark, covered in seagrass. The divers couldn't see much. They felt their way across the surface, hand over hand.

High tide was at 8:39 that morning. The incoming water had two hours to push a body up against the seawall.

''You would assume a body would hit the rocks and get caught up,'' said Sgt. Richard Cosner, of the Miami Police Department's Marine Patrol's Underwater Recovery Team. ``It should have been fairly close by. But we didn't find anything.''

Of course, every time a vessel the size of a cruise ship turns around in the harbor -- it happened at least once before the divers arrived -- -- it sucks water and anything in the water toward it. And after that morning's high tide, the bay water flowed out to the ocean until 3:49 p.m.

No missing-person report has been filed. The homeless men in the park say the two women who sleep there regularly are accounted for, and they hadn't seen anyone new hanging around.

''You'd recognize a new face,'' said Mario Hamilin, 32. ``They always carry some money and they don't know where to get the drugs. You'd know them.''

Hamilin had just woken from a nap. But he won't sleep nights anymore in the park. ''You look out at the water, you feel like you're away from everything, but you're really not,'' he said.

For years, Bicentennial Park -- 29 acres on the edge of Miami's downtown -- has been abused. Soon hundreds of millions of dollars will be spent to remake it into a home for the city's museums. It'll be a gem, something to boast of.

But just now Hamilin pointed the way to the blood. It was a couple hundred feet off in the north end of the park, at the bottom of a hill where light woods give way to scraggly grass. The area was fenced off but there was a hole in the fence big enough for a man to enter. The blood stained the seawall, burned black by the sun.
 

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Wow...I just went for a bike ride this morning in Bicentenial Park....I was snapping pics of our greenspece for that genius at the Biscayne Boulevard Times, and when I got to Bicentennial Park, it was just so nasty and univiting, I turned around and tried to negotiate my way out by finding a cut in the chained link fence. Plenty of greenspace...lots of asphalt, and dozens of junkies and homeless people.
Nothing to really take the family to. If BBT writer thinks that $90Million of the city dollars should be spent on the DuPont site, he is out of his mind...take $9 Million and no committees and that park would be at least desireable in 6 months.
 
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