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PansOps has been raised to about 320m for this site. Not gazetted yet though. You can go through PansOps for a temp time
Hello Mark, welcome to the forum.

From this post you appear to have some knowledge. The lack of gazetting means you may not be in a position to answer questions, but I'll ask mine anyway (feel free to ignore if need be).

Question: is the new PANS-OPS still inclined from north to south? At the same rate? Or is it flat?

Background:

The old PANS-OPS tilted up from north CBD to Southbank. Aurora (at 286m AHD) and A108 (at 319m AHD) denoted the incline of about 35m.

It seems the new Aurora PANS-OPS is now about 320m. Using the old incline would make the new Southbank PANS-OPS limit about 350m.

Or it could be a less steep incline, say 320m at Aurora to 334m at A108 (1096 feet as seen on certain aviation maps).

Alternatively, it could be flat 320m (similar to Brisbanes flat 274m). This probably should be discussed in the CASA thread, but here is ok for now. If you are willing to answer the question it would be most appreciated.

Anyway, good to have another voice join us. Most of us don't bite :)
 
Use of a 'Mammoth' hoist post hammerhead tower crane temporary PANS-OPS penetration.
A 320m PANS-OPS at Aurora site means kangaroo cranes (with their about 50m booms) could be used for most of the tower, say up to the true 75th level (probably a bit more).

They then penetrate the 320m PANS-OPS for a couple months whilst they flip to the hammerhead crane just like Vision tower did for the last part of the tower construction.

I think that is what is being said here, and what I assumed. Note, without the PANS-OPS lift Aurora would have trouble with crane penetration.

I wonder how the Brisbane towers will get built? Their PANS-OPS is 274m and Skytower hits that limit. PANS-OPS lift up their too? A separate topic for the CASA thread.
 
Hi db2. I'm new to this app so forgive me if I mess up the thread.

Don't quote me on the numbers but the PansOps and OLS is based on the emergency banking of some old DC10 or something from Essendon AP. I assume you know this. From what I understand there has been plenty of pressure from various developers, property council etc to the Government to have this lifted.

I know that about 6 months ago casa had agreed to raise it but had to go through the approval hoops.

I was recently involved in another large site that was looking at something +300m so we did some work on it. The new PansOps on that site was circa 310 AHD which puts Aurora at circa 320. The OLS is higher again.

If I remember I'll look the numbers up and let you know.

Don't quote me on the numbers but I do know it's being raised but about 30m if not more.
 
CBD - North > Aurora Melbourne Central - 224-252 La Trobe St > 269m / 84L / residential / u.c

UEM not missing an opportunity to stamp their mark big over Melbourne ...

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Lozza - if mark was talking about a 310m PAN-OPS site that would like put it up the North End around Vic Market or that parallel ..

Hard to imagine a site up there big enough to support such a big tower without breaching the new controls - unless Swanston Central is going through a re-design .. Or dare we say the Vic Market carpark itself lol
 
Hey guys. I'm referring to the Telstra site at 308 Exhibition. We did some schemes which had pushing 300ahd. It was a bit beyond what is currently possible but you need to push the boat out occasionally. The base case scheme was Pans Ops which was 275ahd.
 
BTW. We missed out on the purchase of the site. It went to SP Setia
Thanks Mark for the information. Very very interesting indeed. New voices are always appreciated.

The PANS-OPS tilt is still an open question, though I suspect there is still a tilt of sorts upwards towards Southbank.

As for the Telstra site that indeed could support such a landmark (due to it's size). But with the new floor-area ratios, and Wynnie, I would doubt that SP Setia would go to 300m to the roof. However, the PANS-OPS boost does provide the possibility for a spire, say a 250m Queens Place height tower with a 40m spire is possible. I miss spires!!

Note, SP Setia paid over $100 million for the site. This should be the next big thing on the cards.
 
... new PansOps on that site was circa 310 AHD which puts Aurora at circa 320. The OLS is higher again.
Now this is interesting, or wrong (I don't know which).

Mark, are you saying that with the new changes OLS is now higher than PANS-OPS?

Before OLS was well under PANS-OPS. At Aurora PANS-OPS was 286m and OLS was about 226m (both AHD). Hence the new need for developers to get OLS approval first then PANS-OPS. Heck there was some thought that Richard Wynne was trying to implement mandatory height limits to OLS (226m over all Melbourne) (NOT TRUE BTW, no matter what some uninformed people say).

If OLS is now higher than PANS-OPS that would definitely be a change for the better. OLS was always a pain in the ass.
 
Sorry for the confusion. I'm no authority on this so don't quote me. OLS is 228 and PO 275 AHD currently but I believe it is being approved now to be higher

As for the Telstra site, I don't know what Setia are doing but we had two towers at 80 levels.

No spire.....

The plot ratio issue was resolved by all the give back and uplift.
 
Sorry for the confusion. I'm no authority on this so don't quote me. OLS is 228 and PO 275 AHD currently but I believe it is being approved now to be higher

As for the Telstra site, I don't know what Setia are doing but we had two towers at 80 levels.

No spire.....

The plot ratio issue was resolved by all the give back and uplift.
OLS is a horizontal plane surface of 228.5m AHD over the whole CBD

Pre this whole re-jig of aviation limits this is how the Pans-Ops surface looked, the height limits at each site, sloping higher southwards. Would've though the telstra site would be at around the same PANS-OPS surface height as aurora, not lower, based on the orientation of essendon airport.

 
Sorry for the confusion. I'm no authority on this so don't quote me. OLS is 228 and PO 275 AHD currently but I believe it is being approved now to be higher
Ok, understood. OLS still exists below PANS-OPS, but both OLS and PO now higher (likely 35m boost to each, but not officially confirmed).

As for the Telstra site, I don't know what Setia are doing but we had two towers at 80 levels.

No spire.....

The plot ratio issue was resolved by all the give back and uplift.
The Spire talk was me just mulling and wishing. No one knows what Setia have cooking. All the recent Melbourne towers have been spire free.

Two 80 storey residential towers would be Queens Place tall (about 250/260m above street). A few office floors would boost that more. Sounded like a beast of a proposal. Maybe one day some details for this "never was" will emerge.

If plot ratios for your client was fine at 2 by 80 stories, then it would still apply for SP Setia now. Fulton Lane (SP Setia project) was two unequal towers, my guess would be they will do the same on the Telstra site. This is the most exciting mystery project in Melbourne. Expect a big a landmark!! Maybe Aurora sized?
 
Sorry for the confusion. I'm no authority on this so don't quote me. OLS is 228 and PO 275 AHD currently but I believe it is being approved now to be higher

As for the Telstra site, I don't know what Setia are doing but we had two towers at 80 levels.

No spire.....

The plot ratio issue was resolved by all the give back and uplift.
This bodes well for whatever Setia have planned.

They must have shoved a hell of a lot of community facilities in there.

Setia could be waiting to see what the final controls involve once they're announced next month or thereabouts (if anything they're likely to be even more restrictive than the draft ones out now). I'd say they may also just be waiting out to see how the market pans out as well in the next few months.
 
The biggest issue for the Telstra site is the 4 tunnels below. They are only 20m under. So no basements. The Telstra data centre has a lower ground only. There are easements across most of the site for the tunnels. We had it sorted with crazy pad footings. The easements also prevented deep lift pits. We weaved some structural magic to work it.

So no piles for an 80 level build means some creative engineering

I heard Setia have office levels on the podium, along with lanes that connects to urban workshop and activates Exhibition St. I heard DELWP have ticked it off.
 
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