Yes and it will get hard working Victorians home to their families quicker and safer. 😀

 

Authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

 

As such, businesses can be more productive, right? Switching more lines to through running should bring city-wide benefits.

 

I forgot to link to the reconfiguration fact sheet.

 

The project itself is one I fill will be put on the back burner for a while as there isn't a lot of cash around. I'll be very surprised if this happens in the next 5 years, even if the project itself is costed under a billion.

The cheap fix would be to just add the one tunnel connecting the Frankston line to the Northern group tunnel in Richmond and adding a tunnel from the Caulfield group to the tracks in North Melbourne. The better fix would be to add some strategic flyovers so that the Frankston line can cross platform Interchange with the Sandringham line at Richmond and the Craigeburn do the same with either the Werribee or Upfield lines at North Melbourne.

 

The cheap fix would be to just add the one tunnel connecting the Frankston line to the Northern group tunnel in Richmond and adding a tunnel from the Caulfield group to the tracks in North Melbourne. The better fix would be to add some strategic flyovers so that the Frankston line can cross platform Interchange with the Sandringham line at Richmond and the Craigeburn do the same with either the Werribee or Upfield lines at North Melbourne.

You don't need an extra flyover at the North Melbourne end.

There's already an existing flyover between North Melbourne and Kensington (near Lloyd St) that enables cross platform interchange between the Craigieburn line and the Werribee/Williamstown line.

• Build a new Platform 7 at North Melbourne, as an island with the existing Platform 6
  
  
• Bore a new tunnel portal immediately south of this new NM platform, that ties into the existing Caulfield Loop tunnel.
  
  
• The Caulfield Loop tunnel is used for northbound trains Frankston to Craigieburn.
  Trains emerge from the tunnel, stop at the new NM Platform 7, then proceed over the existing flyover towards Kensington and Craigieburn.
  
  
• Trains from Sandringham to Werribee/Williamstown use NM Platform 6, as they do today.
  
  
• So you have cross-platform interchange at NM between Werribee/Williamstown on Plat 6 and Craigieburn on Plat 7.
  
  
• Trains from Werribee/Williamstown to Sandringham use NM Platform 5, as they do today.
  
  
• Trains from Craigieburn to Frankston run from Kensington along the surface tracks (not the flyover) but the citybound track is instead re-slewed into NM Platform 4.
  
  
• So you have cross-platform interchange at NM between Werribee/Williamstown inbound on Plat 5 and Craigieburn inbound on Plat 4.
  
  
• The Northern Loop tunnel is used for southbound trains Craigieburn to Frankston.
  Trains continue from NM Plat 4 onto the existing Northern Loop portal.
  At the Richmond end, southbound trains have a new portal to emerge from the Northern Loop bound for Frankston
  (this portal could be incorporated into the existing dive that's currently used by Pak/Cranb. Both of the through tracks for Gippsland V/Line would need to be re-slewed north of that dive)
  
  
• NM Platform 3 becomes northbound Glen Waverley & Alamein to Upfield
  
  
• NM Platform 1 is southbound Upfield to Glen Waverley & Alamein
  
  
• NM Platform 2 can be used as a turn back for any Glen Waverley & Alamein trains that don't continue through to Upfield (same idea as West Footscray)
  
  
• The existing portal from NM platforms 1 & 2 into the Northern Loop tunnel remains, but is disused.
  

 

If the project is so cheap (for the benefits obtained), then why not do it as soon as possible? And perhaps should be as well as cross-platform interchanges at North Melbourne and more of them at Richmond. Furthermore the City Loop reconfiguration will involve new connections from Flagstaff to North Melbourne and from Parliament to Richmond, and this could be an opportunity to allow cross platform interchanges.

 

Because the only benefits that matter at the moment is votes in key seats.

 

But wouldn't switching more lines to through running bring city-wide benefits?

 

City wide benefits after the election doesn't win votes this election.

 

But what about benefits to key seats?

 

After the election? Not going to help the next election.

 

So a cross platform interchange at North Melbourne should come easily with the City Loop reconfiguration. What about at Richmond station?

 

Great Topic. Great ideas putforward. My thoughts:

Line 1: Clifton Hill group direct to Flinders P2+3 through-route to Burnley Loop

Line 2: Box Hill and Glen Waverley (Burnley Local) direct to Flinders P4+5 through-route to Upfield via Richmond P7+10, Socro 11+12 and NM 1+3.

Alamein converted to Light rail and extended to Monash Uni via Chadstone, Oakleigh and North Rd.

Line 3: Frankston via Caulfield/Northern Loop to Craigieburn via Richmond P2+3, NM P4+7

Line 4: Lilydale and Glen Waverley (Burnley Express) to Flinders P2+3 through-route to Clifton Hill group via Richmond P8+9, Clifton/Burnley Loop and SoCro P9+1

Line 4a: Ringwood to Belgrave. Frequent shuttle in peak and meets every Lilydale train off peak

Line 5: Sandringham to Laverton/Williamstown via Richmond P1+4, Flinders 6+7, SoCro 13+14, NM P5+6

Line 6: South Yarra P3+4 to Deer Park via Line 5 platforms, Werribee and RRL. This line eventually goes into Metro2

Line 7: Melton and Sunbury to Pakenham and Cranbourne via Metro Tunnel. Airport train TBD

 

Great Topic. Great ideas putforward. My thoughts:

Alamein converted to Light rail and extended to Monash Uni via Chadstone, Oakleigh and North Rd.

All good but this one has a lot to merit as it replaces a "rail to nowhere" with no future like an infected appendix...LR can make so many connections along with some other innovations in the area...what about Ferntree Gully road?

 

And had it not been for the light rail conversions shortly after the City Loop was opened, and maybe more lines could have been switched to through running.

 

Should the City Loop be reconfigured, only four lines will terminate in the centre and circle all loop stations- those will be the Clifton Hill pair and two of the Burnley group lines. As the Clifton Hill loop is clockwise only it seems that the Burnley loop should run the other way all day, with no more odd gaps in the schedule.

 

Clifton group should run direct to flinders then run via loop to Richmond to form burnley express services. Then from Richmond you can get Sandringham or burnley local to flinders or frannkston/burnley express to city loop.

 

Perhaps benefits that could be furthered with metro tunnel 2.

 

I am not following you on this.

 

A train from Clifton Hill would run direct to Flinders St via Jolimont. Then it would continue around the loop to Parliament. From Parliemtnt it would then run to Richmond forming a Belgrave/Lilydale train

A train from Ringwood would run to Richmond. Then it would go via the loop to Flinders St where it would then run to Mernda/Hurstbridge via Jolimont via Clifton Hill.

From richmond this would mean that 2 lines would run via Loop - 1 to North Melbourne and 1 to Southern Cross, and the other 2 lines would run direct to Flinders. Both groups of lines (Sandringham/Frankston, and Burnley Local/Express) would should have cross platform interchange as well at Richmond.

 

The biggest reason why this would go ahead relatively soon, would be more to do with the Flinders street viaduct than anything else. I don't really see them having the budget for in next decade unless something like major maintenance on the viaduct is required.

The original section of the viaduct dates from the 1890s, with later sections made in the 1910s and the concrete viaduct of the 1970s. Although significant works have been done over the years, I doubt there won't be more works required in subsequent years, especially considering the speed limits.

Completing the Loop reconfiguration with the Caulfield and Northern loop, will allow the network be able to be less reliant on the viaduct and if major works are required would allow them to be carried out with less effects on the network then now.

 

By the way, might there be a second city loop re-configuration once metro tunnel 2 takes the Mernda line out of the loop?

 

Maybe we can think about that when Metro 2 has a design, let alone built.

 

Anything's possible, but there is no official plan to do a second city loop re-configuration.

What John S described above, (through routing Clifton Hill to Ringwood via the loop) is one possibility - although whilst it definitely makes the network more legible (every line follows the identical path inbound or outbound) it doesn't free up additional capacity compared to leaving those two loops as-is.

One option I drew up some years ago is below (it's a variant of one of the previous iterations of the network development plan).

A reservation I have about the MM2 route, is that it only services two CBD stations, Southern Cross and Flagstaff, one of which is the lowest demand CBD station of all.

So I though why not split the MM2 proposal into two sectors, combined with a second city loop re-configuration.

The western half of MM2, Werribee-Newport-Fishermans Bend- Southern Cross, then gets through routed to Belgrave and Lilydale, taking over both the current Burnley and Clifton Hill Loop tunnels (shown below in blue).

Mernda runs via Parkville and Flagstaff before reaching the surface at Southern Cross then over the viaduct through routing to Glen Waverley and Alamein. (shown below in Red)

Hurstbridge through routes Flinders St - Southern Cross - North Melbourne then onto Newport (or alternatively you could send Hurstbridge to Upfield and leave Sandringham paired with Newport)

Hence no loops.
Parliament, Melbourne Central and Flagstaff have two reconfigured through routing lines.
One that swings via North Melbourne (the Frankston-Craigieburn line per current plan)
Another that swings via Southern Cross (the Werribee to -Belgrave and Lilydale line)

 

Anything's possible, but there is no official plan to do a second city loop re-configuration.

What John S described above, (through routing Clifton Hill to Ringwood via the loop) is one possibility - although whilst it definitely makes the network more legible (every line follows the identical path inbound or outbound) it doesn't free up additional capacity compared to leaving those two loops as-is.

One option I drew up some years ago is below (it's a variant of one of the previous iterations of the network development plan).

A reservation I have about the MM2 route, is that it only services two CBD stations, Southern Cross and Flagstaff, one of which is the lowest demand CBD station of all.

So I though why not split the MM2 proposal into two sectors, combined with a second city loop re-configuration.

The western half of MM2, Werribee-Newport-Fishermans Bend- Southern Cross, then gets through routed to Belgrave and Lilydale, taking over both the current Burnley and Clifton Hill Loop tunnels (shown below in blue).

Mernda runs via Parkville and Flagstaff before reaching the surface at Southern Cross then over the viaduct through routing to Glen Waverley and Alamein. (shown below in Red)

Hurstbridge through routes Flinders St - Southern Cross - North Melbourne then onto Newport (or alternatively you could send Hurstbridge to Upfield and leave Sandringham paired with Newport)

Hence no loops.
Parliament, Melbourne Central and Flagstaff have two reconfigured through routing lines.
One that swings via North Melbourne (the Frankston-Craigieburn line per current plan)
Another that swings via Southern Cross (the Werribee to -Belgrave and Lilydale line)




View attachment 8753762

Cool map

One of the hardest things to get right with through-routing is balancing load at either end of the branch, and this does a pretty good job of keeping things even.

Maybe the only one the stands out is Ringwood group with 21 routing to Werribee with only 15, so there's probably some turnbacks in the works.

Losing Parliament -> Jolimont seemed bad at first glance, but you get Flinders St -> Jolimont instead, which is probably better for major events.

Very nice!

 

The problem is that will probably be impossible to link the current Clifton Hill and Belgrave/Lilydale Tunnels onto the recently reserved MM2 route as Southern Cross MM2/Docklands Station is under Bourke Street and the Belgrave/Lilydale Tunnel Portal is just slightly North of Bourke Street meaning given it is too close, it might not be even possible to build it with under tight turn radius let alone modern engineering standards.
Station in red, Tunnel Portal highlighted in Green

 

Yes, I originally drew this map maybe 8 years ago, well before the location for the MM2 SX station was publically known, so it would have required those new underground platforms to be N-S aligned.

 

Yeah, MM2 absolutely won't connect to the existing city loop.

 

The whole point of metro tunnel two is to convert more lines to through running and take them out of the city loop and to provide heavy rail service to Fishermen's bend and somewhere in the Inner North. The city loop is currently a way of having trains terminate in the busiest part of the city and limits potential for cross-town travel. 9-to-5 commuting is apparently not as common as it once was.

 

Has there been any info on whether the Parkville MM2 station would be EW aligned parallel to MM1, or NW aligned?

 

They allowed for N/S platforms under Royal Parade in the MM1 design